Murder, Mystery, And Mommies w/ Susan Hendricks | Your Mom's House Ep. 793

What's everybody?

It's me, Tom Segura.

I will be in San Francisco January 24th at the Chase Center.

January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia, January 31st, Savannah, Georgia, February 1st, North Charleston, South Carolina, and February 27th, Evansville, Indiana.

All the dates and info are at tomsegura.com/slash tour.

Welcome.

Welcome to your mom's house.

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what's everybody uh we are back we are here and it is time to get going this is a huge episode um it's great to be doing this show for a year number 15 i think no way jose i think are you serious we started in 2010 so god damn later in 2010 but still it'll be 15 at some point this year still my favorite thing to do in the whole wide world it's so much fun to look at my gene my jean saint jean and talk about farting and coming and all sorts of good stuff.

All types of neat things.

Rod Mutt.

This is like a horse.

This is stacked.

We have to slow roll the announcement of all the things happening this year, but just know this is a super packed year for us.

I'm still on tour.

I will be shooting a special at some point this year.

I have a show coming out.

I got some other things that I'm shooting.

We're going to be doing some stuff, YMH Studios.

That's right.

It's very exciting.

There's a lot of stuff happening.

There's a lot of of stuff happening.

I'm not touring yet because I'm still recovering from all my, oh, I know, bullshit.

I know.

I'm sorry.

You had Invisalign, and that was really traumatic.

And I had my own things going on.

It's not a joke.

But I'm still selling lipstick, you guys.

Get the perfect four.

That is Berlin, Madison, Atomic Red, and the Perfect Red.

You should get them all for.

And you know why?

Because they cover all your bases.

You got your daytime, your nighttime, your fancy, all of that shit.

And, you know, in honor of what's happening in the art world right now,

the banana that got taped to the wall and sold.

I'm throwing my hat in the ring as an artist as well.

You can buy my pieces of art.

You can buy Tom as a cat choking.

That was my homage to the

debacle.

All that cool stuff.

Don't forget.

I'm not afraid of it anymore.

I'm not afraid of that.

Don't forget that the lipstick is gender neutral.

So this is not just for the ladies in your life.

This is for any human.

It can go with your color beard

if you wish.

if you want.

Very cool.

Very cool.

All right, before we get into all the fun stuff, let's do an opening clip.

What do you say there, bro?

If I think it is what it is, I'm behind you.

You don't know what it is yet.

You don't know what it is yet.

But this one's cool.

Here we go.

Happy Saturday.

Rum chopped Always good in pup.

No.

Yes, he is, you fucking liar.

I hate you so much, you guys.

He's not.

Stop it!

You're fucked.

You know that?

I hate you.

I hate you so much.

He's not.

Yes, he is, and I'm not looking at you.

I'm ruining the clip.

It really does just

taste like cinnamon crutch.

That's really good.

Just get it to the cup.

He didn't.

Holy crap.

Don't bring anyone loving to this.

Don't rub my fucking stand.

Welcome to your mom's house

with Tom Sagura.

Welcome to your mom's house.

I don't like you anymore.

I don't like you.

You know what?

I just got inspired for new artwork.

No!

Yes, he doesn't throw up.

You fucking ruined it.

I don't want to listen to it.

I love it.

You ruined it.

He doesn't throw up.

Happy Saturday.

What's wrong with his mouth?

He's doing a gag.

He is?

How?

Can you even curl your lip under?

The whole time it doesn't pop out?

You think that's really what it looks like?

What do you think?

He doesn't throw up.

It really does taste.

I hate you so much.

It really does taste.

Tastes like cinnamon crutch.

That's a really good.

That is his lip, I guess.

I think it's his lip.

I hope your lip looks like it.

I thought you said it doesn't bother you.

You know what?

You have foot in your teeth and take it out, and I'm not going to tell you.

But why'd you take it out?

You said it doesn't bother you anymore.

I don't like it.

I don't like it.

I like either seeing it or not.

I don't like the in-between.

What?

I don't like waiting, the anticipation of the sound and the thing.

You literally were like, it doesn't bother me anymore.

What do you want from me?

It's not my fault.

It's my reaction.

What do you want me to do?

Your reaction is stupid.

You're stupid.

You're stupid.

You smell bad.

I'm going to fucking draw another artwork for you.

Stupid.

You're stupid.

Your mother.

She's so annoyed.

Why would you open on that?

Why would you open on that?

But I don't like that.

You know it doesn't make me laugh.

So that's just for you?

Well, what?

I don't get to laugh.

I'm not allowed to laugh.

Can't you please do a sort of a palate cleanse or something better?

You're ruining the vibe, just so you know.

No, no, you've already ruined the vibe.

No, the vibe was having fun.

We were listening.

Everyone was having a good time.

Nobody liked it.

Everybody was.

Nobody liked it in there.

Really?

Ask them.

Ask them.

I don't think it's funny.

Jesus.

Please play something different.

God, stop talking.

You stop talking.

You're ruining everything.

You're ruining everything.

No, you are.

You.

You are.

And you always do.

Stop.

I always.

Yes.

This is always.

Always.

Your big flaw is that you ruin everything.

Oh my God.

Like we were all having fun, and then you ruined it.

You knew that I wouldn't like it.

No, he just knows.

You knew I wouldn't like it.

He doesn't throw up.

And you just got through saying it doesn't bother you.

You planned that before.

You just said it doesn't bother me.

You said I.

I changed my mind.

I changed my mind.

The lady changed her fucking mind.

And you said it last week.

You're like, it doesn't bother me anymore.

You said this.

I know.

Well, then show me another barf clip and I'll watch it.

I didn't like the in-between.

I don't like the anticipation.

Just show me someone puking or not.

Fine.

Show me me someone else puking i'll watch it why are so many guys on here obsessed with saying just be gay

like why do i have to just

label myself yeah when

the more gay things i do the more i

the more i want to eat clams young nubile clams from the west coast of British Columbia.

That is fucking vile.

I love him.

No, he's so free.

Can you imagine being this free and this happy?

I just love him.

I love that he's so, he's just,

he just is.

He's everything.

Will Blunderfeld.

Taking the shit, like the gnarly shit while he talks about it.

I guess everyone's saying just be gay, but is he not just being gay?

But you can't label him.

But he is doing gay shit constantly.

He's saying he's not gay.

He doesn't want to label it as gay shit.

That's the whole problem.

It's just shit.

It's dude shit is what he's trying to say.

Okay.

Maybe you should stop being so closed-minded and go on, go visit him and go on a retreat.

Fine.

Annie.

Would you come on a retreat with Will?

Oh, no.

I would not.

Why?

Big N.O., I'm afraid.

How come?

How come?

Yeah.

How come?

Well, yeah.

Nigga, the video.

That video.

That's why.

Well, which one?

You just shit.

What do you mean, which?

Any of them?

Well, you could pick any of his videos.

Could you do it if you just went to this is what y'all talking about in the conference room before y'all?

No.

This is what y'all.

Oh, how could we get any to do some gay shit?

No, no, no, no.

Not to do gay shit.

Not to do gay shit.

No, no.

Would you just go on a retreat?

Hold on, hold on.

Yeah, I'm waiting.

Okay.

Where you listen and you are participating to the level that you are comfortable with.

No, no, I'm saying just like

learning listening growing participating this not not doing

gay shit uh-huh i mean so so what shit we doing

well

you know no i don't well you're just learning man nah learning about what dog learning about what just this electrician course what what's he teaching me fucking trade skills and just to be you know to be more masculine

how to how to harness your masculine energy or cheat.

And you don't have to do anything like nude unless you want to.

You want to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think I'm straight on this.

I think I'm straight.

I don't know what I could learn.

Okay, wear boxers.

Hold on.

You wear boxers.

I'm wearing like 12 boxers.

Okay, you wear multiple boxers.

I'm wearing boxers, shorts, pants, and you just let

the guru kind of guide you.

This is crazy.

Come on.

Is this a real ask?

You're actually asking me this we kind of are how did you think this was gonna go i'm sorry well i thought that you would not want to but all right

but i do think there's a path to growth you know how much money would you say at the end would be at the end of this path i i'm i mean there would be a fee involved obviously there would be a fee yeah how big is that fee i mean we can you know let's say it on the show let's say it on the show everybody needs to know well it's not going to come on we can't talk about it's not this is not lottery stuff i mean it would be a fee what does that, what do you mean, lottery stuff?

What does that mean?

Like, you can't just throw out some crazy fucking number to go to a retreat.

You know, like, I'm going to do it like your mom.

I'm going to do it like a mom.

I ain't going to throw out a crazy number.

We're going to do this.

What's your fee for going to a retreat?

I'm thinking, like, 50K.

50K.

Oh, my God.

Yep.

To better yourself.

This is for you.

It's for your benefit.

Okay.

You got to come down.

He's acting like...

$49K.

He's acting like this isn't in his benefit.

I know.

You're going to learn so much.

You're going to come back a more masculine man.

What?

Come on, dude.

You know what really made me look like a masculine man?

What?

If I had a nice little roly on this

arm right here, or maybe two.

A little rollie.

Two.

I don't know.

That would make me feel real masculine.

You know what, though?

I got 50K in my hand.

Any, by the way, you owe us, because I hear that you're so fat that you've been breaking our chairs.

Huh?

Yeah.

You say you broke the chairs in the cover.

You've been breaking chairs.

You owe us?

What is that?

Those chairs are ergonomic $20,000 a piece.

Yeah, maybe skip a few meals, man.

Like, how much are you weighing now?

I'm confused.

I don't know what this is, but I broke it.

You broke chairs.

You owe us.

I broke chairs.

You owe us.

I never broke a chair.

Yes, you did in the conference room.

They told us.

They all said that you broke the chairs.

You are leaning back because you're so fat and you broke them.

You mean?

No, no, no.

See, what they mean to say is that they're stupid and they don't know how to fucking use chairs.

I didn't break shit.

Let me push a button.

I'll fix it right back up.

If I got you a really nice watch, would you you go on the retreat?

How expensive is this watch?

If I were to take it to the nearest pawn shop, you're going to pawn it?

No, don't pawn it.

Don't do that.

It's an asset.

It's an asset?

It'll increase value over time.

I'll get you a nice one.

It'll appreciate in value.

You don't want to sell it.

But see, I'd rather just buy myself one.

You know what I'm saying?

Okay, okay.

Let's say, okay, how about

you?

That's $40,000.

I can't give you $40,000 to go on a retreat, man.

Why not?

It's insane.

That's not insane.

That is insane.

This is an insane ass.

To ask a black man to do some low-key gay shit.

It ain't low-key gay.

Okay, so you're right.

Oh, so are the samurai all gay?

Oh, my God.

That's true, Tom.

Good point.

Samurai ain't niggas.

I'll tell you that.

Jesus.

All right, good answer.

Now,

come on, man.

You think there's no gay

black people in the world?

Is that what you're trying to assert?

How did you get this guy?

Well, the assertion is that black people can't be gay.

That date just is nice.

That is a nice one.

Boy, I bet they'll look real nice on Annie's wrist.

Oh, my God.

After his retreat, after he's built muscle and endurance and strength.

Zolo, can you go ahead and copy-paste that model into

Google, put shopping in there?

They got prices right there.

What is that?

$10,000?

That's not really low.

That's too low for you.

$10,000.

That is ridiculous.

Oh, my God.

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Okay, scroll down.

Ooh.

Plus, you already owe me 10 from the basketball game, so.

I owe you 10?

Mm-hmm.

I owe you $10,000 from the basketball game.

What?

When he won against Ryan?

I thought we were doing something else from that.

No, we canceled it.

We canceled it?

Oh, my God.

That's on you.

How do we cancel it?

What do you mean?

What do you mean?

And he canceled it.

He won hair plugs, and then he goes, changes his mind.

We were going to fly you to Turkey to get your plants.

Oh, yeah, you were all in on hair plugs.

Yeah, and then you change your mind.

That's not our fault.

I mean, we could do that too.

Yeah, but you can't back out and then change what you want after.

We have to sign a contract.

See, I mean, but you can't change your mind and then go, oh, but we owe you money.

But I didn't change my mind.

We said,

we said, what do we say?

We said 10K.

We said 10 Gs.

And, yeah, and then Ryan accepted.

What do you mean?

Ryan accepted.

And what happened there?

We said he ended up, y'all ended up saying, oh, this is unreasonable.

We shouldn't do that because, you know, that's not...

What was it?

That was not fair to me because what if I lost?

And it's too much.

This and that.

Oh, that was like a bet.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I got you.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what I'm saying.

All right, I'm a little confused.

I'm confused too.

But then I thought we ended up saying that the prize for any would be a trip to Turkey to get hair.

Yes.

That was the

way.

And he came in, and he was like, I don't want to do that.

Then he changed his mind about what the prize is.

I agree.

It's very confusing.

I'll tell you what.

We'll settle all of it.

50,000.

Sorry.

It's just ridiculous.

You know what?

Forget it.

We got to get you to go on this retreat man

please go on the retreat

please what do you mean this is i can't believe this is a serious ask this is a serious ask i can't believe this is a serious please i i mean i'm saying please too no i know but it's that your your please is unreasonable you can't give you fifty thousand dollars come which retreat are we doing is it wills retreat yeah oh you got to go do that you see you see

It's like, I don't even know.

I don't even know if, like, I don't even know if 50K, like, if I'm really going to to do that.

And then I get there.

And she's like, yeah, first thing you got to do, you just touch my dick a little bit.

It's like, oh, I'm going to go.

Oh, no, that's not his style.

It's all voluntary.

Whatever you do is voluntary.

He is not going to force you to do.

Come on.

Come on, dude.

That's not how he is.

I don't think he would just.

Just take one for the team and go.

Take one for the team.

For the sake of fun and self-growth.

I mean, I just don't understand why you would refuse this help.

It's so good.

Just do it.

Can we we say you'll do it?

We cannot say it.

This is crazy.

Come on.

Look at y'all, pussy.

Don't you like being part of the team?

I love being part of the team.

Well, then, come on.

Just do it.

This is what it takes to be a part of the team.

Well, this is how you're one of the leaders on the team, yeah.

What?

You're a leader.

I'm a leader.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

All right, that's a yes.

You're doing it.

I did not say that.

Okay, great.

It's done.

Let's say it's mostly settled.

I did not say that.

Yes.

This is a conversation.

I'm having a conversation.

I didn't say yes.

It's crazy.

Okay, we'll revisit.

But basically,

he's pretty much going.

Okay, so

I'm excited for you.

Here's the thing.

I already have your prize for you for going.

Hey, Blackman, how are you?

It's freaking snowing.

And what kind of a

person besides the snow bunny goes out in the snow in shorts.

Anyways, I was just calling to tell you that if you get you a snow bunny, we take care of your hair, we take care of your beard, we take care of getting reservations for food, we take care of stuff black eyes struggles with

snow.

We take care of making snowman's.

Do you want to build a snowman?

We take care of

casserole dishes for the family parties.

Nice.

We take care of

everything.

Hey, Black Min.

There she is.

You know what time it is?

It's almost tax season.

Time to get you a snow bunny.

Because you know, we got that bread.

Is this like an

appealing thing to you?

I mean, it's appealing to look at.

I love watching this girl on Instagram, but I would never get with that, though.

That bipolar, the crazy shit.

She's crazy.

Yeah, that's wild.

Hold on, I got that mania.

That's great.

I thought boys liked crazy chicks because they really put out.

Yes, boys.

You're right.

Boys.

Oh, men are over.

Crazy?

Men understand the consequences that come with those.

Oh, right.

Yeah, the fatal attraction.

It seems like you already went to Will's fucking retreat.

You were talking like a grown man.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

And you know what?

It's time.

It's a new chapter in your life.

It's time to expand your horizons and try new things.

Yeah.

It says here that she's married and has two kids.

To a black man?

Yeah.

Oh, sweet.

But why is she?

Blackman, black man, blackmail.

Listen.

Yeah, that's man.

What better

way

to start your new year south?

She's slow.

But they

snowboard.

She really loves black.

Am I having a stroke or was that?

She put it in a slow-mo.

You didn't

like

too many micro doses in the last week.

Okay, okay, okay.

She's slow.

Hey, can I, I think the new, remember what eyebrows were?

Yeah.

Eyebrows used to be the tell for crazy chicks.

Yeah.

The new eyebrows is eyelashes.

Oh, eyelashes.

The lash extensions.

Eyebrows are still a pretty good indicator.

But yeah.

If you've shaved your eyebrows and penciled them on, you're crazy.

And if you do eyelashes like this chunky extensions, you're absolutely insane.

By the way, and this has been something I've been hearing a long, long time because Enn brought up the basketball game.

Ryan has been wanting to rematch Ennie for a while.

This is ridiculous.

We're going to do this again.

He wants to do it again.

No way, Jose.

Oh, my God.

That's awesome.

Well, Ryan's in much better shape.

Yeah, that's the thing.

He's lost a lot of weight.

He's lost weight.

He's been working out.

He's been taking good care of himself.

Yep.

Damn.

Could be.

Yeah, that'd be cool, except no rematch.

Sorry, buddy.

One and done.

Oh, he's afraid.

How about if Ryan wins, you go to the retreat?

What the f?

No.

One, no.

No.

I'm already signing you up, dude.

No.

Yes.

No.

Yes.

This is not going to.

This has to happen.

Thomas.

Come on, Enny.

Thomas.

Are we not friends?

This is not how.

You see, this is how...

Now I know how I sound when I do this to people.

Okay, now I know how this feels.

I see.

Okay.

Well.

This is not going to happen.

All right.

We're getting there.

We're getting there.

I am sending a message to him.

You are?

What are you saying?

Are you telling Ryan that...

That Enny wants to go.

Yes.

Enny, just do it.

Come on.

What happened?

Have the people.

You know what what I'm saying?

I think you need the retreat more than ever because you used to have this confidence.

Remember when anyone's confident?

Used to.

And now you're just kind of like, oh, I don't want to challenge Ryan.

I can't.

I'm afraid.

Like, I feel like your confidence is waning.

You need this retreat more than you know.

Damn, now you're just going to try to hurt my feelings.

Well, you need to build yourself, your masculine energy back up.

Yeah.

Will can help you out.

Will can help you out.

I don't think I'll do it.

You want to be a real fucking man like this guy?

I got the help of Mama's on.

Zox!

Fuck, dude.

Dude.

Oh, yeah.

Oh,

fuck, dude.

Oh, hell and angry.

Wow, it didn't come out.

It didn't come out.

It didn't come out.

Yeah.

That's why he's not in royal pain.

He was.

You need alcohol to do that.

He grips it.

You hear it clank against his teeth.

Yeah, you need to be on drugs to do that to yourself.

You need to be high on math opium.

He needs Falcon Car wash.

Needs a little bit of Pepsi in a cup with some dog food on a knife.

Don't swim on that.

He's like,

Yeah,

you need to be on drugs to do this.

That's the problem.

He's sober.

Yeah, man.

Damn.

Oh, man.

This is America, right?

You dumb motherfucker.

You gotta get it going, buddy.

Yeah.

It's insanity.

That's how you do it.

Insanity.

Here's a guy who looks pretty cool.

This is, I think, maybe a holiday video.

Fuck you.

He's from ATR, huh?

Yep.

He's from ATR.

Oh!

He's choking.

Get the fuck out of me.

That guy's face is wrecked.

Yeah.

That fall

from the choke to the floor, landing on your face.

He just did it to himself.

He totally did.

Everything was to himself.

That's the sad part in slow motion.

Yeah.

He wasn't even.

They're like, get the fuck out of here.

Now they're like, God damn it.

This guy.

He just died on our bar.

He's just unconscious now on our floor.

God damn it.

I tell you, the nightlife business is a hard one.

I've worked in bars.

We tell jokes in the night.

Anything to do with it.

It's just, you're just dealing with chaos.

all the time.

The security you need,

drunk people are the worst to deal with.

Ugh.

Very, very sad.

Very sad.

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And

the great Iladia Baldwin.

Oh my God, she's back.

We've had some,

if you don't know,

some other stuff in the past, just to give you a refresher.

Okay.

Oh, she's so great.

We have very few ingredients.

We have tomatoes.

We have

cucumbers.

How do you say anything?

How do you say?

Come on, se tiste.

There's been some questions about where I'm born.

I'm born in Boston.

So, can you say I spent some of my childhood in Boston, some of my childhood in Spain?

Got it.

So that's why she was like, I don't know how to say.

How'd you say?

Do it, Tommy.

Do her because you do that.

How do you say?

Deleria, All these charges are not.

I'm going to tell you what I'm going to say.

You're not going to ask me questions.

I'm going to ask you.

Okay?

Okay.

I want you guys to realize that we have seven kids.

Jesus.

And you being here

to

escort them to school.

Escort them to school.

Is not good.

It's not good.

So, on a human level, you guys know I'm not going to say anything to you.

You know that.

So please leave my family in peace and let this all play out.

She talks like she was born in fucking Honduras or some shit.

It's so funny.

She's from Boston.

Her name is Hilaria Lynn Hayward Thomas.

Hilarious.

From Boston.

Not Hilaria.

Sorry, Tilly.

Hilary Hills.

From Boston.

She is of English, French, Canadian, German, Irish, and Slovak descent.

She says she was raised in a Spanish-speaking household and traveled to Spain annually.

Okay.

She also says she began to use the name Iladia as she got older.

So, anyway.

Please, it's not good for my children.

Please.

Here's the newest one.

Oh my god.

Please explain what your photography is.

I don't know what that one is, but I can tell you that my tortilla

is

potatoes, you have to not cut them too tiny because they're not going to have the right texture.

And then I my husband hates

teboya.

I forgot it.

okay.

Seboya Tevoya.

So he hates seboya.

And so I grind seboya and ajo.

Oh my god.

And asjo.

What does she grind?

My husband hates um

what's the word for seboya?

Años.

Hayoose.

How you say.

She's like how my mom talks.

Oh I know.

That's how my mom talks.

Yes.

Who learned English at thirty one.

Yeah.

She's claiming to forget her native tongue.

It's just it is so fun.

How you say?

And I make this a a tortilla here for you.

And then my husband like a house.

How do you say?

My first language.

My first language.

How do you say in English?

What?

And she also has that baby voice, like that highly

voice.

If you're, listen, if you've been sexually assaulted.

No, it's true.

That's why all the girls in porn, they have a high register.

It's a sign of assault.

Just lower the register in your voice, and you'll sound way more intelligent.

No, listen, it's a true story.

I believe it was Margaret Thatcher, when she started working in parliament, had a vocal coach to bring her voice down

a few octaves because it's not.

It's not pleasant to listen to it up here.

Yeah.

Well, you feel like you're listening to a kid.

You're listening to a little girl.

You want to listen to an authority?

You want the authority to have

a deeper register.

You got that gravel.

Well, yeah, just like, just talk like you mean business, right?

I've been doing a lot of things out there.

Guys, I've been thinking.

Oi!

Hey, you wanna know something?

Going to the UK soon.

Oi, that's right, love.

Yeah.

Oi, I'm Margaret Thatcher.

First fucking things first.

There's the Prime Minister.

Higher taxes.

We are going to the UK.

Oh, no, I can't fucking wait, mate.

I have a tour.

I'm so excited.

Some of it is outside of the UK, but it's still in the region.

I'll be going to Dublin,

Glasgow, Glasgow,

London, London, Manchester, Manchester, Birmingham,

Cardiff,

and am I forgetting one?

I don't remember.

Bam, Cardiff, where else?

Wales.

No, that isn't Cardiff.

Cardiff is Wales.

Is it Birmingham?

Bam is Birmingham.

That's outside of London.

It fell down in March.

Let's see.

I'm so excited.

Belfast.

Oh, Belfast.

Forgot Belfast, Belfast, Glasgow.

Oh, Nottingham.

Nottingham.

Nottingham.

That's exciting, mate.

Wimbley.

He's doing the Wimbley.

Yep.

It's all very exciting.

This is so rad.

I can't wait to come.

We're going to have the greatest family vacay.

It'll be fun.

Oi.

Oi.

What?

No, you got to practice your cool British accent.

Nay.

Nay.

Nay is Australian.

Nay.

I know.

They were.

Do you know that that was a thing last night at the bottom of the barrel?

Well, one of the things was like, how Australians say no.

Yeah.

And And then there was an Australian guy in the audience that we made him speak.

Did he say it?

He went, nah.

And he was like, no.

And everyone's like, you're not fucking doing it right.

He was like, no.

We're like, say water.

He was like, water.

And we were like, that's, I get it.

We were kind of come up with things for him to say that we would be lost on.

It was very fun.

Well, I can't wait for you to do your Cockney accent.

in England and tell people you love them and happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

It's your birthday.

It's your birthday.

Especially when you tip people.

It's your birthday.

It's your birthday.

Happy birthday.

Evening, governor.

Hello.

It's your birthday.

Oh, this is some serious.

What do you say?

Sorry, we have to switch to something serious.

Junions?

This is serious, if you don't mind.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Please.

Could you get serious for us?

I'm sorry.

But everything's a fucking joke.

So,

one of the great crimes of modern times, this has yet again happened.

I have been misgendered three times in the past 24 hours at restaurants.

Last night I was at Benny Hana with my girlfriend and the server said, what about you, sir?

What would you like to eat?

My girlfriend, God bless her heart, steps in, says, actually, that's ma'am.

And she looks at my girlfriend and didn't really understand what had happened and said, no, I'm talking to him, pointing at me.

Our jaws were on the floor and we decided to leave because it was just a bad vibe afterwards.

And just a few minutes ago, I was at another restaurant for lunch and they showed me my seat and said, here you go, sir.

And I said, I am not a sir.

Yeah.

So fucking crazy that this keeps happening.

I'll tell you why it keeps happening.

It's because you look like a guy.

And you talk like a guy.

Yeah.

So if you want people to fucking start calling you ma'am, start looking like one.

I know.

You're not putting in enough effort, fuckface.

No.

You got to fucking try harder.

There's a reason that everyone keeps doing this to you is because your level of effort sucks.

Step it up.

You have a masculine fucking face.

I know.

Go get some surgery, wear a prettier dress, get better hair, and start talking in a higher voice.

Like Hilaria.

Yeah.

Also, maybe not wear a bark collar out in the world.

I thought that was a

voice adapter changer on this.

I wish.

Just a microphone.

No, it's a microphone.

It looks like that collar you put on your dog so it doesn't bark when people ring the doorbell.

I don't know how you can get mad at this.

This fucking clown, he's been all

so upset with people

constantly misgendering me.

And you know who he gets mad at?

The busboys.

Like people that have no, you don't care.

Yeah.

Don't do this.

Sweet fucking El Salvadorian person pouring water.

Yeah, Javi,

he's like, for fuck's sake.

It's just like a nice little immigrant guy.

Yes.

I'll tell you what, too.

I really do wish in another life if I could open up a shop to consult trans women, like help these dudes actually look like women.

I would love to do that.

And then I left because I wasn't comfortable anymore.

And I went to a new restaurant and I asked, before I sit down, where's the bathroom, please?

And they said, oh, it's right this way, sir.

And I just left because I wasn't comfortable.

So you're just going to keep it.

If you're ever in the food industry, you don't need to use words like sir or ma'am.

There are ways to be respectful without using those words.

And if you get it wrong for someone like me, I will probably leave the restaurant.

And it puts like a bad vibe on my day when it happens, especially when it happens three times in a row.

Yeah, but this is fair to say also, this person is mentally ill.

Yeah.

This is a complete lunatic.

Yeah, of course.

Like after seeing a series of these videos, you're like, okay.

Well, I think this is all a charade.

It's a charade.

And it's all about picking fights.

It's like this person's waiting to be called out and then get

mad on TikTok.

Like, we just relax.

And he's waiting to go in with his fucking dog collar.

Yeah, well, his dog collar and his dock worker face and going, like, hey, how come no one's like, excuse me, miss?

Because no one sees it.

And then you're just going to be like, I'm going to keep going into places.

It's like the definition of insanity.

It is.

It is.

And I think, I imagine, I think this person lives in San Francisco, I want to say, which is a very open, lenient,

trans-friendly town.

So, I mean, there's nothing but trans.

And it just goes all the way back to your level of effort.

You're just not trying hard enough.

No, you should try hard.

You definitely need to get your face shit done, taken care of.

Yeah, his face is still very masculine.

It's not passing.

See my wild side.

I show everything.

Oh, that's why he's doing this.

But including a cock, which also belongs to men.

Watch me jack off with my feminine dick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, come on.

Now

the gig is up.

We know what you're doing.

Yeah.

You're just directing traffic to the OnlyFans, huh?

Got it.

Got it.

You know, this makes me mad.

You're not the only one that's going to have a hot OnlyFans.

Charo

is getting closer to getting going, and the fans are still

ready and asking for it.

What's everybody?

This is a message for Charo.

What's up, everybody?

Get on OnlyFans, girl.

You know what we want to hear.

I love this.

I love this, dude.

That shift was really fucking scary.

Yeah.

That was terrifying.

Let's watch it again.

Yeah, that was so scary.

What's everybody?

This is a message for Charo.

Uh-uh.

Getting on OnlyFans, girl.

You know what we want to hear.

Yeah.

Oh, it was amazing.

It was great.

And by the way, he's got the cool guy angle.

Yeah, he's got the audio.

I like it.

He's got music playing.

He looks like he's cooking or something or painting.

He's got an apron on.

Hey, Hitler's Brandon from Ohio.

Just wanted to weigh in on the Charo OnlyFans debacle.

Big time, yes.

Yes, yes, yes.

The people want to see it.

The people need to see it.

It's riveting.

It's exciting.

It's new.

I'd pay 15 bucks a month.

Wow.

Let's get Charo on OnlyFans.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you very much for that.

Wow.

That was great.

That was awesome.

Hey, Charlie, this is Letid DS from Scotland telling you to get your ass in gear and get that OnlyFans made.

Let it rip.

Yes.

Thank you.

There's excitement around this.

Yep.

And I think we're going to get her in here soon.

We're going to show her these, and I hopefully think we can get.

a page going.

She's getting ready.

She's getting ready.

She's getting her Botox today.

She told me.

Yeah.

I'm taking her to get her face.

Yeah, i got a cool phone call what happened she was like i'm on my way to do this thing and i go okay i'm driving she's like how do i pay for this oh my god which is basically like how are you gonna pay for this and i was like i i fucking i don't know i'll reimburse you and she's like uh yeah i think i have a checkbook i go you're gonna bring a checkbook check god you really are old as shit

Anyway, she wants you to pay for it.

I got her a ride today.

I gave her a ride.

You took her?

I didn't take her, but I got somebody to drive her.

I took her on the driver.

So she's shaking me down for the ride, and now she's shaking you down for the money.

This is crazy.

She's not destitute.

She is not poor.

At all.

At all.

I can't believe she just shakes us down for everything.

Everything.

Everything.

I can't believe she just did it to me now.

She's shaking me down.

Yesterday it was, can I have a bag?

Yeah.

You have so many bags.

Ask me for a bag.

So this is like luggage, right?

And I I do have a lot of luggage.

Yeah.

Just years of so much travel.

So I was like,

okay.

Give me this backpack.

I'm like, no, I just bought this backpack.

Well, give it to me.

I'm like, no.

And so then she goes,

don't you have something?

Something I can have?

So I fucking emptied a bag and I go, here.

And I gave her a bag.

And I go, I don't think you're going to want to take this.

Why?

I go, because it's empty right now.

When it's full, it's a duffel.

You're not going to want to throw it over your shoulder, you know?

Of course, it's heavy.

No, it's fine.

And then in the car, I'm like, I really think you're not going to like that unless it's full of your stuff.

You are right.

I go, yeah.

She goes, so you have another bag?

I go, yeah, I have a roller bag.

I'll give you a roller bag because you're not going to want to lug one over your shoulder.

No, you are right.

When can I have the roller bag?

I'm like, the fucking next time you come over.

It's unbelievable.

She wants everything and she wants it right now.

She should pair up with the fucking misgendered person.

No.

I feel like they would be a good matchup.

You know what we should do?

I was thinking because every time she sees what I have, she wants it.

She wants my handbag.

She gets in my car yesterday and she's like, oh, what do I have to do to get this bag?

And I go, nothing.

You can't have this.

Yeah.

Here's what we should do.

Let's go to the 99 cent store.

Yeah.

And just buy a bunch of shit.

A bunch of bullshit.

Wrap every single thing.

So when she comes over, we're like, oh, we got you something.

It's like a toddler.

Yeah.

So she can feel like

she unwrapped a gift.

Yeah.

Are you retarded?

Yeah.

She's so retarded.

Yeah, she is.

Annie, you really need to take a shit.

I know you're black and you guys do your own thing, but you still have to shit.

Thank you, Charles.

Yep.

That's very true.

All right, let's take a quick break.

We'll be right back.

And we are back.

You know our guest perhaps from HLN, maybe CNN, and she's also the author of Down the Hill, My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi.

It's Susan Hendrickson.

Yeah, good to see you guys.

Thank you for coming.

I'm so excited to be here.

We're very excited.

Me in particular.

He's been erect all day just thinking about talking about murders with you.

I mean, you know that most of our

television consumption is basically her just

literally every night when I get into bed, she goes, Are you going to watch a murder?

And she's like, I'm going to go to bed as you watch a murder.

No, no, no.

I go, what are you going to watch?

Genocide, murder, serial killers, kidnapping.

What awful thing are you going to watch?

And then she drifts off as I dive into a new story.

Well, they're captivating.

They bring you in.

Thank you for doing this because one of the reasons is that she also is like, you know, you're a sick person.

Like, she'll say this to me, right?

She's like, you're sick.

Something's wrong with you.

Why are you watching this?

For sleep.

What are you filling your head with?

And then I also would be like, hey, you realize this is the number one show trending right now?

Like, she thinks, I'm like, you think they produce this for me?

Like, there's a lot of people watching this alone, right?

Let me tell you that.

We watched that documentary the other night and I couldn't sleep for two, what was it called again?

You're talking about

mother stalker.

Lover stalker killer.

And I couldn't sleep for hours.

I was so upset.

I felt traumatized.

I felt sick to my stomach.

Now, how is it that...

How do you live with this stuff?

I was watching an episode, you guys.

I'm so excited to be here again.

I'm a huge fan.

You guys got me through COVID.

Thank you.

I would come back and from the numbers ticking up at CNN and it's like fight or flight constantly and then I'd come home and I listened to Sebastian and Picorielli, you guys, and now my algorithm is, that's all I listened to is you guys.

Good.

But right, my sister would say, oh, I fall asleep to forensic files.

Oh, my God.

And when covering the story out of Delphi, it was two young girls murdered in the middle of the day.

And I was sent there by CNN.

I didn't know about the story, much about it, just that the 14-year-old Libby was able to hit record on her cell phone.

And they got this kind of, the guy on this abandoned bridge in the woods.

I used to play outside.

It was Gen X.

That's what you did.

Come home when the lights go on.

It was a day off from school.

They were down there and it was secluded.

And she was able to,

he was a blurry version because he was far away, but they got his voice saying, guys down the hill.

So I was sent here.

I met the families.

Normally, with the news cycle, when I'm in studio, teleprompter, story, you know, the A block, the B block, it's very formulaic.

So you care, but you're on to the next, the next, the next.

Well, this one, I was in their kitchen.

I had spaghetti with the families.

I saw their rooms and I went, oh my, I saw the bridge and they were looking for the guy.

Fast forward, I really got to know them well, especially Libby's family, and every family deals with it differently.

And Libby's family was very open.

They were speaking at CrimeCon, holding up a sketch like, we need help finding this guy.

And I think that was their focus to get them through.

And Mike, Libby's grandfather, was there and he would say, come to the meet and greet.

And I'd say, it's inappropriate.

I shouldn't be here.

I'm not part of it.

He's like, come.

And he kicked me under the table because in a nice way, but say, you have to be here.

These women would show up and cry.

They're waiting in line.

They care.

So I think what I found out through this whole community is the connection.

So at CrimeCon, it's either people

who have literally gone through it.

I interviewed BTK.

daughter, Carrie Rawson, on stage because I met her through Kelsey's sister, this girl.

Well, she said, I trust you, Susan.

I gave Carrie your name.

Is that okay?

She just wrote a book.

I said, That's fine.

And I met her, and she's amazing.

And she's shaking backstage.

And she said, I'm nervous.

People don't like me.

They say that I look like my father.

And I'm so glad that this family is nice to me because I'm on the other side.

And I said, What other side?

There's no way.

You didn't do this.

It was your father.

She said, I had no clue, Susan.

He'd make me scrambled eggs.

He'd say, fill up your tires before driving back to college.

Walked her down the aisle.

And that, to me, I got that.

It's part of the fascination.

fascination like yeah what wait a minute what because the mansons look like man yeah

the father and with this it ended up being a guy cvs father

he walked his daughter down the aisle at cvs when the aunt of one of the girls walked in crying for the funeral and said develop um a picture for her he said it's on me it was him he looks normal We think that they're not going to look normal.

Well, that's part of the fascination, right?

Is that, first of all, I think you just, these are behaviors that all extreme violence is accessible to everyone.

In other words, everyone has thought, God, I want to kill this person.

I'm so mad I want to hit this person.

But you always, you stop yourself, right?

Like you want to, you're so angry.

And so the fact that somebody is capable of doing that, I think is part of the fascination, that somebody crosses the line.

Right.

Yes.

And then there's the story aspects to this because they're fascinating.

Like, how did the person go about doing this horrible thing?

Got away with it for five years.

And to get away with it, and then how did we piece together

the investigation to catch the person?

So, that whole arc, I think, is why these stories never get old.

It's just always, you're like, How did this happen?

How can somebody do this?

And then, how do you catch them?

And I have an eight-year-old son, and I interviewed Anne Burgess.

I'm like, is it nature or nurture?

Like, what is it?

Can you raise a murder?

Like, what is it?

She's a, well, that's the question that everyone everyone asks, but it usually is not always, but there's abuse there.

We all want to like compartmentalize to be like, why?

And the why is never like a, oh, okay, I get it.

I get it.

So he was 44 years old when he went down there.

And he said, when I first walked into this trial, because I had seen him when they finally made an arrest, and he looked back at me and he didn't take his eyes off me first.

And I went, like, because you know how you normally do that.

And I go, what's going on?

This was a hearing before the trial.

And

Tara, Libby's aunt, said to me, oh, he always does this.

He glares at us and he would look at me like this.

The guy's like 5'4.

And I'm like, what?

44 years old?

Wakes up one day and decides to murder someone.

But I've gotten to know Paul Holes, who solved the Golden State killer case.

And he's like, Susan, you can have sick fantasies about this for years and never had done.

That Golden State cases.

What is that?

Just tell me to remind you what I was saying.

It was originally

the person because it happened from the 70s and it was an ex-cop, but it was called the.

Yeah,

he started with break-ins.

Yep.

So what he would do is just break into homes, ransack them.

He was like robberies, you know?

And then it escalated to assaults and then to murders.

And he did it.

I mean, his numbers were actually.

off the charts.

Sadistic.

It was off the charts with how many people.

The murders are obviously like the highlight, but if you know how many people he actually broke into homes and assaulted even before that, it was like triple digits.

And this is before, of course, cell phones, like with this guy who got caught, Richard Allen.

It was, he didn't bring a cell phone down there, but it's kind of like you're able to see his car pass a certain building, even though the town was less than 3,000 people, which I think had hurt him.

120 burglaries.

Jesus.

51.

Years.

And no one suspected he was an ex-cop.

But what he would do, he'd tie up the husband, have him watch, and put

a crystal cup on his back and say, if I hear this, smash, you're all dead.

And he killed, I mean, countless people, of course.

And finally, Paul Holes said to me, Susan, I had to look out for this.

I put everything that aligned with what I thought.

I would say, okay, I think I got the guy.

And he said, and everything that didn't, I'd kind of push away.

And he said, I had to be very careful about that because...

It turned out that because the DNA came back, it wasn't the guy I thought it was.

He pulled in front of his house, and Paul Holes has the most amazing book.

And he thought, I'm going to go in.

This is him.

I know it's him.

And he goes, Thank God I didn't.

Like, what he fantasized about going in.

And the first page of Paul Holes' book, he said he was so devoted.

And he said, he was at this strip club.

And he thought to himself, he would see the young girl.

He was with a bunch of guys.

And he'd say, I'd see her in like an autopsy devil.

And he's like, I'm going crazy.

He's like, what the fuck am I doing?

I'm going crazy.

And he said he felt more comfortable, though, at an autopsy than a cocktail party.

It ruined marriages, but he's good at it.

I know.

But he'd look at a scene and say swab the foot like he has a way of solving it.

Yeah,

no, the story was just

unbelievable.

I mean the HBO series, they had a series on it about

Michelle McNamara.

That's right.

That's Pat Namara.

Married to that actress.

Yes.

And she was obsessed with

the case and died during.

Yeah.

And it was, yeah, it is one of the most incredible stories.

If it wasn't for Michelle McNamara, and Paul Holst points this out all the time, it wouldn't have been solved.

Yeah.

She became

the driving force of this thing.

She was like an armchair detective, so to speak,

and really kind of dug into it and was taking things to sleep at night.

And then

it ended up accidentally killing her, the prescription mixed with something.

And sometimes I have my sister call, don't get into too much into crimes.

Michelle McNamara died.

Like, you can't.

You have to separate this.

And my mom would say, can't you tell them you have kids now?

No more murders.

I'm like, mom, I can't go into CNN.

I'm like, Excuse me.

Excuse me, no more murders.

Well, that's what I was going to ask.

But this also was

this guy, also, just by the way, was married, kids, grandkids.

Of course.

They all have the profile of the world.

Don't trust normal humans.

You don't know.

Do you ever get afraid of retaliation?

I do, but I think that I'm very skilled at compartmentalization.

I don't know if that's a good thing.

I'm able to

tell other people's stories and focus on that.

I don't get afraid, but

my son the other day is in second grade.

He goes, mom.

He's just so sweet.

He goes,

so there was a mom today at reading, and she writes poetry with my friend's mom.

And I said to him, I'm like, my mom writes books.

He goes, what kind of books?

He goes, don't tell anybody.

Murder.

And my mom goes, well, at least he said, don't tell anybody.

I'm like, the Catholic way.

But I told that to Nancy Grace.

I'm like, I swear I said therapy.

He's going to be therapy.

Murder.

And then when, when I decided to write this, and it's, it's different because no one was caught at the time.

I just got to know the families and I thought there's something there about their perspective.

And growing up, I digress back to New Jersey.

I think I was like 10 or 11.

Our cousin, the Keith family, is like four very pretty girls.

And the dad worked in local politics.

So did my dad and the brother.

And she was murdered.

And I heard my parents talk about it, like on the landline.

And we heard rumors like, was it a drug dealer in New Brunswick, New New Jersey?

No one ever talked about it.

And we didn't ask.

And our friend, whose sisters were friends with Kathy Keith,

said it was a drug dealer and it was this.

So finally, when I was writing this, I mentioned it and I said to my dad, Dad, what happened?

And he goes, oh, it was our boyfriend.

I went, what do you mean, boyfriend?

I thought it was a drug dealer.

He goes, well, they were doing drugs, but it wasn't a drug dealer.

I'm like, why don't you tell us?

He's like, what am I going to tell my teenage girls about that?

So I did call the sister and say, can I mention this?

And it was, there was a newspaper article that I found.

And it's funny because it says like the headline of this.

And when I, the editor, Hachette, said more of this.

But if the sister said, I don't want to talk about it, I wouldn't have.

And it was more like the headline was like, dead woman is daughter of official.

Did they get

preferential treatment?

Which was like the headline.

But anyway, so I thought, is why?

I don't know why.

But anyway, it's, I think it's about the draw to it is

people want to understand why.

And I feel like they can, they think that they could help maybe.

I'm not sure.

Do you, did you find that?

I mean, obviously, this title is very telling, my descent into this, that you became obsessed with this then?

Did you become obsessed with this?

Oh, I did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I was used to being on set and there's a teleprompter in their stories.

I just move on.

I did Anderson's show at night and I you move on you and you're good at moving on.

And then I got to know them too well and I would just start crying for no reason.

And then the pandemic hit and my sister's like, I think you're too involved.

I'm like, I'm not too involved.

I just,

and I get criticized like we all do online, I guess.

But it's like, she's not a journalist.

Who does she think she is?

She's too nice to the local cops.

They were, I really liked the local authorities, but I found out my cousin, Kevin Hendricks, who's 10 years younger than me, I still look at him as a kid.

He's in the FBI.

And I said, what do you, can you look into this?

Like, what's going on?

There's tips.

It's a town of less than 3,000 people.

It's like, but I think that was a deterrent.

You would think, oh, it's Jim.

No, you don't think it's the guy who you like,

who you see in town.

So

he's like, okay, I'm going to write you back like this and don't look at this and open this as this.

And I thought, I'm going to see stuff.

This is two years before an era.

And he goes, oh, forget it.

I go, what?

He goes, they shut the FBI out.

They kicked him out.

Because when someone's missing, the FBI is automatically invited in.

The girls were missing.

when their bodies were found they have to be invited in and guess what they gave them the tip line nothing the ego so it you think you see it in the movies it happened yeah it happened wait now why do you think because you have i'm sure a

very clear perspective on this why do you think these stories and this genre in particular appeals to women so much That's such a good point or a good question.

And I've wondered that too.

And Kevin Balfu puts on Crime Con, I've asked him that.

And it's a funny story.

Him and his brother owned Red Seed Ventures.

And Nancy Grace came to them after HLN and said it was kind of a podcast umbrella.

And he said, oh, let's go to the crime conventions.

And there were none.

And he said, so we started one.

He's like, it could have been a colossal failure.

He goes, I didn't know.

I wasn't really.

He said, but what I've found is that women either want to know.

And I've heard this said in kind of a joking manner.

Like women, when they go on a date, if they don't know that, they're worried they're going to get killed.

Like women want to be armed with the information.

So, I don't know if it's that, but the Scott Peterson, I think it's the person who doesn't look like a killer.

And so, you're like, wait a minute, that guy could, and Chris Watts, the most horrific.

It's like, he looks normal.

Who's Chris Watts?

The one horrible.

He killed his two little girls and the wife.

Yeah.

And the wife.

It got so bad, and I'm good at staying at this level on the air.

Well, that day it was the hearing where the prosecutor, I think he did this on purpose, explained everything he did to those girls.

And I was with guys I'm usually with contributors.

This was Joey Jackson, an attorney, and my eyes were watering.

And I looked at him and goes, my God.

So he kept talking.

And it was horrific.

Horrific.

Usually it is the husband, correct, that kills children.

I want to tell future husbands, if you're thinking about doing this, or like you get caught.

It's the guy.

They always get caught.

But what about those anomaly cases like the John Benet Ramsey's or Madeleine McConnell where they're like, oh, it's not the parents?

Like, I mean.

Usually,

and even in the Delphi case,

these internet, the thing I love about YouTube, and I was able to find you guys and podcasts, everyone has a voice, but the bad news is everyone has a voice.

So some people could go on there and blame the families that have nothing to do with it.

I think with murder and abuse of kids, if it it usually happens inside the house of its family.

Outside the house, when they're on a bridge, it's not going to be, you're going to be like, Dad,

if they're walking towards you.

True.

It depends who you ask.

With Maddie McCann, I never

ever thought, because I covered that, but not as extensive as others.

I never met the parents, but I always thought like something happened.

And it's funny.

I stayed at a hotel with my husband.

I'm like, nobody leave this room.

I'm a little nuts now.

A lot nuts because I'm like, Didn't you see the Maddie McCann thing?

You think of everything that could happen.

And he's like,

we have a sitter.

There's a sitter there.

I'm like, should we not bring the kids?

So you always think of the worst case scenario.

But there are people out there who said maybe it was an accidental death and the parents covered up.

But you can find anything that you believe.

That whole cover-up and maybe, you know, you can't help but think about the Jean Bonnet case because it's, you know, the other thing is, I mentioned this in some of the other

stories, like even the Menendez story is that, you know, you're alive during it,

but but you, you kind of, you're like, oh yeah, the guys that killed their parents.

And then you watch the documentary again and you're like, oh shit, I don't remember any of this, or I didn't know any of this.

And the Jean Bonnet documentary was a real,

really informative and also a big-time refresher because I was like, you know, I remember the story.

When you're young and you're younger.

When you're young, and you're like, I remember that when it started, I was like, oh, yeah.

So who ended up being arrested for that again?

That's how I, and I was like, oh, right.

They never really got anybody for that.

I go back and forth on Jampanet at first.

I never,

I've met the dad at Crime Con and a nice man.

And I was in the green room with him and he said, you know, Susan, I think

I'm fighting for that.

Like in Delphi, I want the FBI to be, to stay in certain jurisdictions.

And I said, I understand.

And at first I wasn't clear about what happened or I didn't have a thought.

And then I read a book on it and I thought, ooh, could it have been the son?

And, you know, parents would go, because you're not, I thought about it.

I wouldn't stick up for my husband if he did this ever.

But if my daughter accidentally would stick up for the kids, so that's where my head went.

But I don't know if we'll ever know.

The note was odd.

The note's so odd.

So, what do you think of the note?

The placement.

Well, first of all, her being in the home, you know, the access to that home through that window.

The note is beyond peculiar.

But also,

seeing, okay, take the father aside, seeing how I believed how distraught this mother was.

Me too.

And it just didn't register to me like that she was just being like, I got you to him on this.

I know.

It's very peculiar.

I don't think we'll ever know, but I think something happened inside of that house.

And I don't think we'll ever know what it is.

I really don't.

And it's horrible that Patsy passed away and that, you know, know, he

wouldn't you though, if there were suspicion on you, just kind of go away.

He's still at CrimeCon.

He's still out there.

He wants it tested.

He even came out and said recently, look, I think that, I know what you're going to say.

What?

That

I think, here's what I, I think, okay, you know, when the mind is very powerful, and I'm not accusing anybody of anything, you know what I mean?

But let's just say I did something terrible.

And I could convince myself that I'm innocent.

And I might believe that lies so much.

I might go to church every day just to show other people how innocent I am.

I might try to absolve myself of the sin by overcompensating.

Someone find my daughter.

Someone find my husband.

I love Tom Segura so much.

Before I came on here, I said I was going to talk about this.

She's CSI, and I said, what do you think?

Tell me.

I won't quote you.

She just quote me.

Legislative.

Well, there's people, a lot of people are doing what she said, which is, you know, when they go, all right, we'll submit for this.

And they go, sure, I'll give you my DNA.

And then the DNA is a match, you know, that there is DNA, some DNA in this case as well, that isn't a match for the father.

Right.

And I think it depends on what documentary you watch because my sister just watched one that John was leading.

Right.

And so she said, there's no way.

She said, Burke reminds me of Jack.

My son's Jack.

He's eight.

There's no way he's going to kill.

I said, well, what if it was accidental?

And then they covered up.

And she's like, I just think

it's not true.

And I'm not saying, I feel bad if John,

if he is innocent and think of the life and the hell he went through.

But

it's just bizarre to know that there's too many things.

I don't know.

It's so bizarre.

So bizarre.

But you're right about that.

So Cheryl McCollum is her name.

She works for Nancy Gray.

She's the most amazing person.

I love her.

And she's like, Susan,

this is Cheryl, she said.

If I was looking for Caroline, her daughter, would I say,

I found her?

Or would I say, like, just the, she picks up on things that I don't.

Like, and then there she was.

Wouldn't you say, oh my God, there's my son.

Like,

but then I think back to like, do we, do we put ourselves in that situation and think, how would we react?

But the truth is, the Chris Watts, the Scott Peterson, they don't act right.

They don't act right.

They don't act right.

They don't act right.

And the dad, when he carried John Benet's body, which I found out.

And invited all the friends over.

And invited the friends over.

And then not only that, carries John Bennett's body out like this.

Now, if you find your dead child, I would cradle.

I don't give a fuck what evidence.

This is not the way you carry the child you just found murdered on the floor.

I would be to my body looking for life and holding it.

Yeah.

I don't even hold my fucking dog, my cat like that.

Right.

And you put yourself in the shoes.

And yes, there have been situations where people have been accused and they didn't do it because we always think, oh, it's your closest to.

But in the Delphi case, the grandfather, Mike, I say grandfather, he's like in the 60s.

He's like, check me out.

Test me.

You know, it's like do what you're doing.

I know they go to family first.

Yeah.

But with John Bonet, I think the fascination was, and I remember, same thing as you mentioned, Tom, with the Menendez brothers.

Even I knew them.

One of them, Lyle, went to high school with my sister, Princeton Day School.

I went to East Brunswick Tennis Club with them, and we knew the tennis pro Merrick.

And it's funny because my dad remembers this.

They stopped by.

It was him and Lyle, the older one.

And we weren't home.

I was 14.

I probably should have been hanging out with a 19-year-old tennis guy.

Right?

But so they stopped by, we weren't there.

And Merrick used to say to me, you know, Susan, you got to meet this lile.

He's crazy.

He'd pull up to Norwich Airport and a Porsche and just leave it.

And that's where he parked.

And he'd

pay for the towing.

So when it came out on People Magazine and going to high school in Princeton, Chuck's was right near us.

We ate there all the time, the restaurant they bought.

Just like you said, you don't think about it.

You're, thank God, murder wasn't my business at 17.

I'm like, oh, really?

They killed for money and then you move on.

But they had, now that I think about it, they had access to all the money anyway.

You don't kill your parents for an extra couple million.

No, was the shopping spree.

I asked Anne Burgess.

She testified in the first trial.

And she said, they had access.

That was like a way of saying, you're gone.

You know, and I, and oh, I also interviewed one of the jurors, Hazel Thornton from the first trial.

And she said to me, Susan, I'm like, tell me what it's like when you go back and you're talking.

It's divide.

And remember, 90s.

Yeah.

Men against women.

Men were like, no way would a father abuse their kids kids sexually.

No, it just doesn't happen.

Boys, and are they gay?

That's what the men were saying.

Yes.

And the women are like, not to say let them walk.

It's a horrific crime, you saw.

Yeah.

But they were saying manslaughter.

They'd be out by now.

So that's the argument.

Hazel has said to me, I've been on with her.

And she's like, Susan, I'm not saying they should have walked.

No one's saying that.

But 35 years is enough.

And considering the horrific abuse.

And the DA, Gil Garcetti at the time, just lost OJ.

so he's like we can't a lot of this is political we can't lose this no abuse is allowed in the second trial one of the most telling things was that in the documentary that came out recently about them that the prosecutor and prosecutors are always like fucking lock this piece of shit she's a spitfire she's a real spitfire and she goes

the day that's the woman right there where she oh yeah yeah yeah she goes The day that that guy died, the father, she goes, the world became a better place.

So for the prosecutor to say that, you know, she was like, this guy, what she goes, I couldn't find one character witness for the father.

Not one.

Not even one he paid.

None.

Think about how much money he had.

No one.

He must have been just a real fucking horrible guy.

Well,

they have 20 family members, even on his side, who say, let these guys out.

Like, that's why I believe.

But when I was watching that, I remember being young and watching that and being like, ooh, I don't know about the sweaters.

And I don't think as a society, we could wrap our brains around that that would happen.

No, because I remember growing up and thinking, like, oh, those two douchebags killed her.

Me, too.

Parrots, you know, because you don't think about that context for sure.

But you shouldn't kill your mommy and daddy.

And there's a lot of people are abused, but geez, Louise.

No, absolutely.

I totally.

But they paid their debt to society.

I see what you're saying 100%.

Because my mom says that.

Why do you have to talk about the Menetas all the time?

And she goes, and they shot their parents.

And I said, I know, mom, but I said, I don't want to get get into details.

But if you watch the documentary about Menudo

and

nothing against that industry back then, but now that we know what we know, what did he have access to and how evil was it?

But I think, obviously, when they went to reload and shoot the mom.

There's a lot of hatred in there.

Rage.

Rage.

Rage.

But I do think that they paid their debt to society.

I truly believe that.

And all of their family members.

If they were even, you know, the father's family members.

That's interesting that nobody liked the guy.

Not one.

She goes, that's the reason.

She goes, we couldn't even have a character witness brought to the trial because we couldn't find one.

I think people think money equals problem solved.

And therefore, why would anyone with money do that?

It hides a lot of things, I think.

And I even think with the Ramseys, like people are like, oh, no, that wouldn't happen.

Look at the facade.

Like, look at the way they look at their house.

and the, you know,

I think that, and I do that, I fall into that of like, well, they don't look like they should look.

They don't look like Manson.

What could possibly be wrong?

But I think secrets are held tight inside of houses and you never know.

And that's part of the crime obsession.

You're watching, you're like, 20, why would I?

It's all the questions.

You're the unanswered questions, of course.

And I don't know if we ever hear a why and go, oh, that makes sense.

But that's like the, you know, this is like the, it's the, the reason why Hitchcock became a phenomenon.

It's like you go, this thing happened, and then you're, you want to piece it together.

Everyone wants to piece things together.

You want an explanation.

You want the answer at the end.

And every time a crime occurs, it's a new question.

Right.

And you go, like, what?

Like, it's just this.

What I found, so the

trial

of Richard Allen in Delphi, there are, it's a business.

And so they, I saw ABC, NBC, they're swarming.

They're swarming.

And like, who's getting exclusives?

And do you know the family?

And can you get the.

And it's, it's.

And you guys all end up competing too because Netflix puts out the doc, and then all of a sudden there's a dateline special, and then there's a CNN special.

Like everybody has to do their story on it.

I think you guys who paved the way, it's true.

Last night I didn't realize how long you guys have been doing this, but you really did pave the way of different media.

And

what I love about you guys is people kind of talk about their feelings and talk about who they are.

And at CNN, it's like teleprompter and anchor hair.

And it's funny, Mr.

Ball and I met with him about his charity.

And I said, can I even say this, fuck?

And he goes, I love that.

You said, fuck.

He goes, you have anchor hair, but we love you.

So it made me laugh.

I'm like, that's because of you guys.

At CNN, I'd be like, pulled up.

But my point is, I think that you allow conversations to happen.

And that's why I really love you guys because it's authentic.

And at CNN, I remember producers in my head is like, Susan, I said,

you're kind of funny.

We like the commercial break, Susan.

Oh, I'm like, I'm like, but I can't do the commercial break, Susan.

I'd like,

you know, it's like three, two, one.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pretend you're coming up tomorrow with the Yanker voice.

So I digress, but you guys allow for this conversation to happen.

And I forget your question.

No, that's what.

I want to ask you this.

The gays are going nuts for Luigi Mangioni.

And so is the rest of society.

But gays screenshots are a little bit more than a moment.

I think V2.

I think V2.

If you saw my screenshots, so I was getting my haircut the other day and I was looking at like a haircut I liked and the guy, that's my hair goes, why is Luigi Andrefona?

I know it was a screenshot of him.

I'm sorry.

Stunning.

Handsome young man.

Smart.

Smart.

Young, young.

He's very young.

The gays really are going crazy.

If you go on Twitter, it's like gay Twitter.

And also, like, there's a lot of debate over whether that penis pick is real.

Wait, wait, really?

Debate now.

You guys, I'm behind on the.

What pic?

We broke the story.

What?

The dick picks?

I broke it.

You didn't see the story.

Mom, it's time to mute this.

What?

Susan?

What?

You got to see his dumb.

No.

Well, people were saying whether or not it's a Photoshop, but where?

Well, there's a.

Was it the perp walk?

Did you guys see the perp walk with the mayor who's in trouble with Diddy at his own perp walk?

The perp walk was kind of crazy.

There's a lot.

Well, there's.

Oh, that pic.

No, that's not the one, but that is one.

That's not the one.

That's not the one.

That's a good one.

But that's an example of.

I think he's closer to my son's age than my age.

All right, let's see.

I know what the draw is, though.

What is the draw?

The Robin Hood type of guy.

Like my husband's father passed away last week.

He was 70 at COPD for a while.

He had got COVID.

They put him in the hospital, nicest guy.

We all went to Disney last year.

Anyway, his insurance,

they sent him home early.

And he died.

He was, I mean, and my husband was talking to him on the phone watching a Broncos game.

And my husband said, Do you think he got too excited?

He couldn't breathe.

I'm like, he should have been in the hospital still.

Or they said with rehab to build up the lungs.

And he died.

He was mentally fine.

He was only 70.

So I, and he said, it's the insurance thing.

I said, that's why that guy.

It really did like open our eyes.

We're all talking about it.

Which actually kind of defines how terrorism works, right?

Because a terrorist attack

isn't about the act of violence.

It's usually done to point your eyes towards a cause, right?

And then, and then that's when that's when they consider it a success.

It's like if you do the horrific act of violence and they go, what was, why did this happen?

We did it because of this.

And then if you're discussing this and you're changing the way you view something, that's like a successful terrorist attack.

This was killing one person, but it's.

Oh, there it is.

Yeah, that's not it.

That's it.

Oh, that's the one that people are.

You're saying that's a fake.

People are saying that might be a fake.

Susan, please look.

This is very important.

Do you think

that's his real piece?

Now we're going to go to a commercial break.

Well, the lighting seems like

he's eyes.

I mean, isn't that crazy?

Now you can see why.

Do you do this at CNN?

Now you can see why gay Twitter is going nuts.

A producer read my air and go, B-roll.

We got B-roll.

Roll it.

You think it's authentic?

Here's our B-roll.

Is that authentic?

Oh, my gosh, you guys.

He's too young for me even to be thinking.

Look at him scuttering.

Look at it like you're a pediatrician.

Do you think

I think it's real?

You think it's real?

I don't know because now looking at that, we did see that picture last time we discussed it.

The shadowing, the light, it seems a little blurry at the head.

It's a hog.

Do you see the head as a little blurry?

Yeah.

It's in the foreground, and therefore it should be clearer image, correct?

Look, then as a society, we came together over this guy.

Wait, did that sound right?

Okay, we all got together

over this guy.

But, but, but, but, there's clearly something wrong.

The mom was called and she said,

is this your son?

Like, he has a huge family.

Like, is if that was my son, Jack.

Oh, my God.

But if that was like, I'd be, that's my.

Just don't close it.

Just move it off frame for a moment.

I don't want her to lose her frame.

I'm Catholic.

I would say, you know, she said I could see him doing that.

So I'm wondering, was this the beginning of schizophrenia?

I'm just making that up.

Like, was something.

You want to think that he's the normal

University of Pennsylvania.

I think he was this normal, obviously very bright guy.

He's valedictorian.

You penny.

He's in the 20s, you penny.

And really sharp guy.

But he started to retreat.

from his normal connections.

Nobody was in touch with him.

That's not normal behavior, especially for somebody in their early 20s.

Started to post and write, you know, things that were not of the norm, like his going on, I think, some Reddit rants and maybe on Twitter about his, the, you know, his feelings about healthcare industry.

And, and, so you have these kind of behaviors that indicate something is changing, right?

Then the actual act of pulling off this assassination.

And now you have,

you know, they had the very short manifesto written that he was like, this was my work alone, and didn't want to, I didn't include anybody else on this, but now pleading not guilty to it, which is matching the lawyer sweater, isn't that weird?

The husband of that woman is P.

Diddy's lawyer.

They're a dream team, though.

I mean, if anyone could get them off.

I don't see how you can get off on this.

I really don't.

There's something called,

is it jury nullification, which basically means they could go back.

Same thing with OJ, in my opinion.

Oh, that a jury might let him off.

Yeah, a jury might be, hey, you know,

maybe Nicole did not, but that there's a bigger issue.

It was Rodney King, it just happened, and I understand.

And they were,

I remember, I think I was interning at a Fox affiliate in Phoenix.

I went to Arizona State.

So I was, but I remember

watching that.

And I, theater, he was a superstar, right?

But I'm wondering, is this guy a superstar?

Kind of.

For a certain portion of the population, he is.

Yeah.

But mentally, did I think OJ would kill again?

No.

No.

Would I don't know.

I don't know the mental stability of Luigi.

I don't know.

Luigi might be like, I mean,

it's reasonable to believe that he might have a new agenda or see somebody else that is reasonable to go after.

Not that I think he's a

career kid.

I think he knows so much more than we know.

Oh, for sure.

You know, because what a heartbreak for them.

This kid, I watched this high school speech.

Val Victorian, I still don't know how to spell it, much less be it.

For him to do that speech, it's like, what what happens?

But there is schizophrenia with boys, and I think girls, I think, more boys at that particular time.

That's when he could show someone.

The fact that he had this

surgery that,

you know, to have spinal surgery.

But did he?

Someone I saw on a show was saying, how do we know that's his x-ray?

Well, yeah, but I think he's he did, though, right?

He wasn't.

He's been.

You can find him talking about him going through this.

I wonder if that pain shifted something.

Oh, that pain can shift something in you for sure.

And pills and whatever else he was taking

can mess with your mind, and you can kind of fall into schizophrenia at an early age because of that.

But, you know,

he was in real pain, I think, with his back problems.

I remember after September 11th, I think I was in Palm Springs at the time, everyone coming together.

And of course, I feel like, and not to compare this to that, but in terms of how, like, doesn't matter what party, everyone agrees that our health care system

is a disaster.

Yeah.

Is a disaster, whoever you ask.

And maybe like if you can afford, it shouldn't be that you could afford it.

I was thinking like, so

I was thinking this about my, I should have stepped in.

We should have gotten him a private nurse.

And why can't we step?

I didn't know how bad he was.

It was sudden, though.

I didn't know that they sent him home.

And we didn't know.

But it shouldn't even be that.

If you pay, he's paying health insurance.

It doesn't.

it's people get so egregious yeah and so i pay

connection coverage and you'll see he's the symbolic yes he's the symbol of it face of it he happens to be good looking i know thank god we chose a handsome fella well it would be i've thought about this that if he were

not a good-looking guy there would still be people who'd be like yeah i get why you did this and like supporting the fact that like i think chris rocks at that he's like come on but he's like this change if this guy looked like someone else we'd be over it he's good looking right and smart and came from that like succession family yeah i'm dying a deep dive there like what

or it's interesting too that the grandmother what the grandmother had a thirty million dollar um

fortune that she left to her children and grandchildren right of which he is one and in the will

it notes like if anybody's convicted of a felony oh that you don't get a piece of this but i'm like this is such an interesting thing to think you have to put in there.

You know what I mean?

Like, I just, but who does that?

Yeah, like, who goes, well, no felonies, though.

That sounds like succession.

Yeah.

Like, that there would, she predicted that something like that would happen.

I remember my Aunt Jeannie, who didn't die with much, you'd go, I love my Aunt Jeannie and Uncle Peter.

You'd go in their house, and it felt like at a madman.

And they, I think they grew up in the Depression, so they had Campbell's soup.

But they, he, my dad, who's an attorney, was the executor, and he said, Uncle Peter, a $200,000, like stuff was hidden in mattresses.

But they left it to like my mom and certain people, but not the cousin that was divorced.

That was the end of that.

That was their line.

Yeah, like divorce, but felonies apparently with this family.

But I wonder if it does go to trial.

He's charged federally.

But it's funny, I had questions about terrorism and you answered it.

Well, because they, and it was a big deal because when he was originally arrested, they were saying that they were going to charge him with second-degree murder because in New York is a more likely likely conviction and the sentencing guidelines for that, they felt like they could for sure do that.

And

then there was the shift to make it first degree terrorism, which is a much, but there's a much higher burden of proof for that.

So there's a lower threshold to convict on second degree.

But I think with the fact that,

well, the video, obviously they confiscated the backpack, the, you know, they had the gun there.

That's interesting.

With Casey Anthony, there was a criticism of overcharge.

So she walked.

That could be interesting.

Could be the, yeah.

I heard this morning that P.

Diddy is jealous of how much attention he's getting.

Because they're in the same prison.

And they have husband and wife lawyers.

The wife is his lawyer.

The husband's P.

Diddy.

So P.

Diddy is furious.

He's like, why is everybody talking about Luigi, man?

That is so ridiculous.

Like he's furious.

It's interesting about murder and what we think.

And I looking at, I remember seeing that video and thinking, who has a silencer?

This was a hit.

And then the bike.

But then is it true that like a female flirting brought him down?

Like, I mean, that's.

Well, that's how that photo got circulated.

Yeah.

The photo was circulated because, like,

it's not for this photo, we don't have a face.

So if you don't have a face, how would people know who to look for?

You didn't have it.

If you're a savvy and you planned it, like, you don't flirt with the.

No, he's out of his gorgeous.

You're right.

You know what's interesting, though, is that I feel more afraid of a P.

Diddy than I do.

So do I.

I was just going to say that.

We have different lines.

Like with BTK, who was absolutely nuts and would kill again, and he said that out loud in court.

Would certain people kill again?

Like, that's it's almost like the Menendez.

Like, when is a murder?

And I guess that's why, obviously, they have the legal system and parole.

It's like, would they do it again?

How have they acted in prison?

And I guess that matters to the new generation.

Diddy was in a

torturing people.

And it's been torturing people.

Diddy?

I think he tried to kill Jamie Foxx Foxx or somebody.

I don't know.

The more I go down it, I don't know what to believe with him, but it's like, again, I ask why.

You have everything.

What are you doing?

Well, I mean, that was callitical at the beginning.

He was just like unchecked resources and power that just kept growing and growing.

And then that...

For him, it feels like it was just like to get that dopamine drip, you just had to keep raising the bar until it got into this really sick, dark world.

I don't know.

I mean, who knows what would have been next for him

if you follow the story.

It's almost what happens to you, though.

I feel like I'm not saying that everyone's abused who commits murder, but kind of, I think so.

It's like, what happened to you?

Oh, yeah.

But there are people that are abused that never do this.

I'm not saying that that excuses it.

But usually when it's like

serial killers, people that have patterns of repeated violence, you almost always, always find neglect and abuse, almost 100%.

I asked Gabby Petito's dad that.

He's wonderful.

Joe Joe Petito, I said to him, I went to his house in Florida.

He's from Long Island, though, him and his wife.

And

they were setting up lights and it took forever.

And I said, I got to know him.

Wait, where?

Oh, oh, my gosh, this is embarrassing.

So I was doing a Gabby Petito special at CNN, and I was doing this, and I was exhausted.

And I'm walking to the parking lot, and they're like, Keep trying to call Joe.

Here's his number.

I'm like, hello.

He answered, Susan?

I said, yeah, it's Susan Hendricks.

How are you doing?

He goes, good.

And I start hysterically crying.

I'm overtired.

I'm like, I'm so sorry.

And he's like, don't worry about it.

It's going to be all right.

I'm like, this guy's making me feel.

I'm mortified.

It's a father.

And I just said, I'm so sorry.

I just, because the video came out of her, that body cam video of her.

And I think that was my peak of like, okay, I need a break here.

I'm crying to this dad.

But so I got to know him and I and I said, what do you think happened?

This is off the camera.

And he goes, I'm going to show you something on my phone.

And it's not out yet.

I'm going to show you something.

I said, all right.

He goes, Gabby texts me this that day.

And it's her with a huge black eye.

And I'm like, oh my.

And I said, do you think it's his father?

Like, his upper.

I was trying to, I had gotten to know him.

And he goes, the mom, the mom.

And I said, what?

And he goes, did you see the note that came out?

It said, burn after reading.

Like, it was, so body cam footage came out where he was seen smacking across the face.

I think she was, so an assessment had been done.

That was in Utah.

And I interviewed the assessor of this,

who was the police chief, who said, based on what he saw and investigated, she was the victim of long-term abuse.

The girl was.

Yeah.

And I think watching that, I think I saw myself

from home.

From him.

No.

Oh, from him.

But long-term, meaning at that age, it could be a couple years.

And I saw a little bit of myself in like who you dated at that age.

And so when I saw that in the newsroom, it was very very different than my friend Sammy, who is 25.

He's like, she seems a little off too.

I'm like, oh, God, only certain people see what I see.

Because he had kind of conned the cops who were there and said, is everything all right?

And he's like,

you saw him suck them in.

It was something that I'll never forget seeing.

And

the father said, I can't watch that.

That's not really Gabby.

I'll watch part of it, he said, but it gets very depressing.

And he said, what keeps their family going?

So Gabby's mom and dad were divorced when she was three.

They're good friends with the now stepparents.

They're all good friends.

They were at Crime Con one year and they're funny and nice.

They went golfing with my husband.

They're nice.

They came together.

Now they're trying to help others, like people who don't get as much attention as Gabby.

Because I was asked that at CrimeCon, like, why?

Because she's blonde and pretty.

And is that why?

And I, I said, I'm not sure.

I don't make the decisions at CNN.

I don't know if it, if that comes first, then the attention comes, or is it we put it out first?

But they're right, everyone should get equal attention.

And now, Joe and his family fight for that.

But he said, watching that, her mom said, watching that, her mom said, Cole, that she knew.

She knew right after that.

And seeing that is horrible.

Can I ask you this?

When you've met people that have committed crime, violent crimes, do you feel

an energy from them?

For instance, in that John Bonet documentary on Netflix, the first policewoman that shows up, she says, I locked eyes with the father, with John, and I knew, and I knew.

Like, did you, do you feel a cold breeze?

I will say that that's a great question.

I felt it in Delphi when I first walked into the hearing.

This was at the end of July.

And when he turned around, and I know it's easy to say because he's an orange, you know,

but that look was like, oh my God.

And it's not about me.

So I'm with the family.

They said to me, Susan, come over here.

I go, it's inappropriate.

I always say, now I hear my son say, that's inappropriate.

And so I said, I was like, they're like, no, come here.

So I sat with him and he just glared.

And that's, I never got a feeling like that.

But it's not often that I meet the guy, like the alleged perpetrator or whoever.

I usually meet the families, the Joe Petitos, not the Brian, the guy who's accused.

But with John Ramsey, I didn't feel it.

But,

and I wonder if I would have with BTK.

It's interesting because I felt it with him, but he was in, and he was looking at me, and he was also at the ceiling doing this.

BTK was?

No, this is

Richard Allen.

And then when the trial came along, I think he was faking it.

Then I saw an interview that he did, and he acted normal.

Because I was watching him, and I go, how did the wife not know he was nuts?

Because the wife's sitting over there.

Then I see an interview interrogation that he did.

And I'm like, because he's faking it.

He is

normal.

I think the people who are able to do that, if I met him and he wasn't arrested, I don't think I'd be able to do it.

No, I think you would.

I think they're good at it.

Well, what about these eyes?

Look into these eyes.

What do you see?

What do you feel?

I feel the coldness.

He's too much of an intellect.

The coldness.

The coldness.

The dead.

My first gig was I worked for America's Most Wanted.

What?

I didn't know that.

Yeah, I was an associate producer on Final Justice.

You love it.

And then I switched over to America's Most Wanted.

You know, I can't wait to call my husband because he's like,

I'm a huge fan.

He's like, it's definitely going to be the wife who knows all about the murder story.

He's not even going to know what you're talking about.

Yeah.

I don't like it.

I don't like it, Susan.

Let me tell you, I don't like it.

And

I get more terrified because this could be your neighbor.

This could be the school teacher.

This is called

they're called news moms on side go.

I got to ask you this, though, because you said you interviewed BTK's daughter.

Yeah.

That story is obviously one of the most famous, horrific stories.

But when you realize that this guy had the family and the like, like, what

was she like?

What did you gather from it?

She was really amazing.

She's very, you could tell that her nervous system is shot.

And she said that she,

her dad would say to her, be careful, be careful that BTK, you know, lock the doors or do

yes.

And so

she,

I felt her get her mojo back, so to speak.

Like at CrimeCon, I think it's a good thing it gave her strength.

She was a, and, oh my gosh.

So there's a QA session at the end, uh, and she wrote about it.

uh two kids with her husband but it caused a divorce and of course she says she has ptsd and all of that but when the fbi first showed up at her door they said she thought her grandmother died they mentioned some

someone she it didn't click until they said your father's BTK.

And she said, my life changed from then on out.

I had no idea.

None.

Zero.

And the mom and of course the brother, everybody was shocked.

I think she said, I have to own it.

I can't hide from this.

But I hope that people know that I,

of course, they know you had nothing to do with it.

So someone stood up at the end and this gave her strength.

I never thought I would hear this.

And I said, okay, you're next.

And she said, hi, Carrie, I wasn't going to come, but I heard you were here.

My dad's also a serial serial killer no

and i went only at crime con a place called crime that you would find that somebody else saying that yeah that's crazy and and so they walk up to her and say hey you know and i asked kevin that it puts it on with his brother how do you keep out the crazies because you would think they'd be there yeah and he said well it's two things if anyone does anything bad they're out

but i price them out it's expensive these people have like backstage for a thousand dollars meet and greet and it's weird He was able to do this upstairs.

And it's different cities each time.

It's like they have sweatshirts that say, I'm basically a detective and like a payphone.

I'm like, I remember payphone and like cutouts of the dateline people.

But then on a different floor, it's with Delphi like flyers.

We want you to help out.

But everybody's kind.

They really are.

They're spending a lot of money to be there.

They want to be there.

And a good friend of mine, he used to play for the Falcons, Koy Weir.

I worked with him for years at CNN.

And he's like, oh my gosh, my wife is so jealous.

She was at the first Crime Con in New Orleans.

I'm like, really?

Why?

But because people love 2020 dateline.

And I think, I don't have the exact answer, but I think it's because people feel more in control, maybe.

It comes down to like a mystery, who would do it and why.

It's not so much a crime, like a drive-by shooting.

It's more like who did it?

Who did it?

Yeah.

And why.

And we never know why.

We're always like, why?

Well, and I was watching Gladiator 2 this morning as I was walking in my treadmill.

And I do think, you know, that is a primitive yearning that humans need violence.

We need that sublimation.

The bad guy.

We need to see bloody, awful stuff because it is a part of the human experience, unfortunately.

I don't know.

Maybe it's a cruel thing.

Maybe.

I think I was able to watch Friday the 13th at age like 12.

Right.

I tell my mom that.

She's like, I didn't know you were watching that.

I'm like, we were screaming the VCR tape of like Jason slaughtering people.

If my son's like, now I'm, I'm, I overcompensate, but clearly he knows what's going on because I did order books.

And the first person to see, oh my gosh, now I have to write this.

How am I going to write it?

And tracking this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

So I ordered these books and he goes, Mom, murder.

And I said, oh, no, that's an actress.

He goes, oh, shoot.

I'm like, my daughter is older.

She would never do that.

He's definitely in tune to different things, but he's like, murder.

You want to see some wild shit?

I don't know if you've seen this.

This is

Brian.

I'm like, I'm in.

Yeah, of course.

This is

Brian Cohey Jr.

You saw this?

No.

I thought you were going to say Coberger.

Parents have some concerns of some stuff they may have found in your room?

Yeah, I believe so.

And what would it be?

A human head and hands.

Like, for real, human head and hands?

Yes.

From

that fellow who went missing recently.

Which fellow was that?

Warren Brown.

Warren Brown?

When did he go missing?

The night of the 27th.

The night of the 27th?

Okay.

And how did you end up with him?

I murdered him.

With what?

A knife.

It's like a dumber knife.

Why would you have done that?

I've always wondered what murder felt like.

How do you know this guy?

They told me that that was what was in the wallet.

What do you mean that was?

How did you come across the gentleman?

I was driving

and I saw a strange shape near the railway.

Uh-huh.

So

I parked my car and investigated it, and I found it to be a man sleeping.

Okay.

Where's the knife at?

It is in my sunken car.

Well, it's in my car.

I had that.

Previously, sunken car.

Well,

when I killed him,

I tried disposing of his body by the way.

are in it.

Where's the rest of his body at?

Where's the rest of the body at?

What parts?

The rest of it, homie.

Down the river.

Down the river.

I'm gonna have you walk over here.

You're gonna sit in the back of

my partner's control, uh, patrol car for a minute, okay?

Not yet.

Just sit back there and hang out for me, okay?

Why do you just keep the head in hands?

I wonder.

And the rest is down the river.

I'm good, sir.

How are you?

You said your name is Brian.

Yeah, I'm not feeling too well.

No, no shit.

No, these constant days, I've been very, very anxious.

Yeah, that's understandable.

So, what we're going to have you do here is I'm just going to have you sit in the back here, okay?

I'm going to turn on the air for you in a second.

That way, you're not too hot.

Are you a hot butter or freshman?

Learned about it.

Well, that documentary.

So, you prefer the cold?

Okay, fantastic.

I'm not going to hear about that.

So, hop in here.

I know you're tall, so it's a little bit of a tight squeeze, but like I said, I'll get that air up.

Oh, we got more, right, Sean?

My mom's like, why don't don't you go to Hallmark?

Christmas.

I'm like, okay.

And she called me and said, get over here right now.

Oh, they have to blur it out.

Oh, wait.

Was it one gun?

Can you see it?

She didn't want to hear the run.

I don't want to look at it.

Yep.

Yeah.

So.

But you see how he was like.

Is this a serial killer?

No.

What state?

I gotta go throw up.

Excuse me.

I have to.

Colorado.

Grand P, Colorado.

Grand Junction, Colorado.

Grand Junction.

Okay.

I'm going to piss.

You're going to leave right now?

I have to pee so bad.

I'm so anxious and nervous.

Watching murders.

I'm sorry.

I have to piss.

He's just.

She's such a bummer about this shit.

Wait, how old is that kid?

He was 19 when he murdered a 69-year-old guy.

I know, it is weird.

I think when Nancy Grace came into HLN CNN, it was and the Casey Anthony, it's all about ratings and numbers.

So that's when it kind of shifted that's when I kind of got into the all crime

genre so it is my job it's weird

I think there's also something about

just how many when you you know when you say like it'd be great if everybody could get the same coverage yeah just how many horrific crimes occur particularly in this country like this violent crimes and what I realized with Gabby Petito's dad told me that in the national parks like there are dead bodies that are there, and no one talks about it.

Because I did say to him, Look, I'm going to be at Crime Con with you, and that's going to be a question.

I even asked my bosses at CNN, I'm like, How do you think I should answer?

Because they're like, Well, don't bring that up.

I'm like, I'm not going to bring it up.

They're going to bring it up.

Yeah.

Why do we cover blonde, pretty girls, or like the Casey Anthony's?

I hope this isn't airing because I'm scared, but uh, okay.

Um,

I don't know what the answer is.

I think it's about what catches on.

I know it sounds callous.

Part of it, though, is the fact that when you show

a blonde 20-year-old who's gone missing or whatever, people's attention also just sparks for that.

It's not just the fact that you showed her.

It's that people go, oh, what?

And to me, I guess if I were to answer, it'd be like, oh, we saw Gabby because she has, you know, videos now and kids have younger, have things.

With Scott Peterson's wife, it was just that one still shot.

Do you remember with Lacey Peterson?

Now kids have videos and you're able to kind of get a peek into their lives.

Did you watch that doc?

Which one?

The Scott Peterson?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I forgot so much about that case.

With his ponytail, but I'm like, someone said to me at CNN, and you kind of joke, you get used to what you do.

Not joke about anyone dying, but you get used to what you do.

And if you don't laugh, you lose your mind.

Yeah.

But someone's like, How about that aging on Scott Peterson?

What's going on with the skin care?

Meaning he looks good.

I'm like,

you know, you kind of have to.

He sleeps like a baby.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The sister being like, still.

That sister-in-law.

I'm sorry.

She's in love with you.

She's in love with her.

But the

crazy, one of the things that stands out so much is his behavior in the initial interrogation.

Oh my God.

Like the Christmas.

They have this raspy voice.

They're like, we're looking for Liz, eh?

Like, they have like this raspy, like, I don't know where she is, trying to sound sad.

Practice it, Tom.

It's a raspy, like fried voice with no tears.

Christina's gone.

Is that good?

A new whisper.

Yep, perfect.

Christina's.

And that's it.

No tears.

He was like,

he's like, yeah, I got back.

I went fishing.

And then I saw the dog that was out.

And then, I don't know, yeah, I hope you guys weren't.

I was fishing on Christmas Day.

And Nancy Gray is like fishing on Christmas Day.

I love Nancy Gray's.

Didn't he like order a pizza before he called and called her in missing or something?

He was like, so chill.

Oh, he got, no, remember the cops arrested him.

He had an orange beard.

He was,

he took classes at Arizona State, my alum.

But he, and they're like, are you hungry?

And they went through a drive-through and he got like in and out.

They're like, are you hungry?

And he's like, I ended up starving.

Yeah.

Just killed me with him.

No qualms.

But I mean, he like he did the worst performance, like of a, as far as putting on a performance, he was just like, yeah, and the dog was out.

So I knew something was wrong.

Yeah, the dog.

So, yeah, she's just, I don't know where she is.

Like, but I hope you find her.

It's like, this is your pregnant wife on Christmas Eve, and you're like, I hope you find her.

I don't know what to tell you, man.

How about his mistress?

I really liked her.

She was really nice forward.

And, like, yeah, he's like, hey, I'm in Paris.

I see the AiffL Tower.

There's the AFL Tower.

And she knows at that point that what you know what's going on.

So she has to be like, oh, cool.

Yeah.

Do you see now this is my job?

So I would listen to you guys and was on the algorithm and was like,

all I wanted to do was laugh.

Yeah.

Because it's like,

and I am, I will say, I'm a little nuts.

Like, I'm so aware of my surroundings that I was at the gym and I hit this

the elevator and I noticed like a guy was supposed to get off on the button.

He clicked, but he didn't.

He got off on where I did.

And I'm like,

and I take a right and I'm like, I'm nuts.

I'm nuts.

I remember one time all the time.

You called SAFE, Stranger danger, baby.

I was a foreign exchange student.

I was in Madrid.

And the bus that would go to my stop,

it was taking it in the evening.

And I got up from the back of the bus.

And a woman in the front of the bus was getting off.

And she turned around and saw me.

And when I got off with her, she ran.

Like, she ran.

And like, and I, like, like screaming, ran.

So I chased her.

What?

I did because I was like, this is so fun to see somebody this scared.

It was fun.

Let the record show that he was joking about it.

If I go missing, guys,

my favorite clip of you guys is Bill Burr being like, no, you're

the bigger psycho.

Oh, yeah.

Total.

Please.

I didn't know you worked for America's Most Wanted.

Yeah, he loves it.

Remember the Mill Cartons?

Was anyone ever found from that?

Jesus Christ, I'd hope so.

I think so.

But that showed

a lot of people.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

America's Most Wanted caught so many people.

Oh, with what's his name?

John Walsh?

Yes.

Yeah.

That when Fox went to cancel the show after it had been on for years, there was a backlash that was so big that they brought it back.

Good.

Because they were showing.

They're like, look, his show's already caught like 800 people.

Yeah.

It was public service.

It was like public service, yeah.

Always.

I don't know if you guys are aware of this subculture.

So outside of trials, I covered this, but with like Karen Reed, there's these people on YouTube who want clicks, and there was Turtle Boy, who's like the conspiracy theorist, and like, she's innocent.

She was accused of killing her Boston

cop husband.

But, you know,

so there are people who now go to these trials.

So the Brian Koberger trial is coming up at the end of August.

Yeah.

And that Idaho.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I got to know Stacey.

Who is this psycho?

Sorry.

Ethan Chapin is,

you know, the college kids who were murdered in the

off-campus home, the three girls and the boy.

I got to know Ethan Chapin's mom, and I said to her, Would you do

be on a panel with me?

I'm interviewing like Yardley Love, who was killed in a lacrosse.

She played lacrosse at University of Virginia.

And so I was doing a panel on kind of how do you recover?

What is the strength?

And there's a lot of gag orders.

And I said, We won't talk about the specifics.

And she said, I will.

And she's so nice.

She called me like two weeks before.

She goes, You didn't tell me the name of it.

I go, I know.

I'm sorry.

CrimeCon, I left that to the end.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I was like, I know.

And she goes, I'll do it.

And then I really love her.

She's like, I don't think I'm going to the trial.

Nothing can bring my son back.

She's like, he was at his girlfriend's house.

And the one thing I will say, I know this sounds very depressing and we keep bringing up different murders.

The families that I've met and the strength that I got from them, and that's the focus of my book,

it's unprecedented.

If you think you're going through something, it really is.

And you guys do that too.

Like, I feel like your genre and what you guys do, when you guys were one of the first, it's like men don't talk about things back then that you guys talk about.

Like, oh, like with Theo Vaughn, maybe I'm depressed or maybe emotions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

For my husband to watch it, that wasn't talked about.

They watched like football games.

You guys are doing something wonderful.

And I'm doing good.

I'm going to do this work here.

I kind of thought through it.

You are.

But I thought through it.

Like, that's what that does.

It's like they can get through it, then I can get through it.

And I think hurt people are drawn

to CrimeCon.

They really are.

It's good for them to meet other people, too, that have been victims of it.

And even not maybe of a murder, but just

something.

Something biased.

There's always something in the eyes, though.

Oh, I know.

This guy's out of his fucking mind.

The eyes are really awesome.

Wouldn't talk to that kid.

Wouldn't talk to him.

And I remember talking to Paul Holz about it.

He said, remember he saw snow or there's something snow.

Like that is, I don't know if it's a sign of schizophrenia, obviously, but something was up, clearly.

And remember the dad driving him across the country?

But in that picture, like if he's a teacher at your college, you're not thinking

mass murderer.

He wants Jake Gyllenhol to play him.

Is that what he said?

If this tells you anything, don't trust anyone.

I mean, you could turn paranoid.

So that's why I have to balance it out.

And my mom's like, watch Hallmark Christmas movies

with the same plot.

So it is a little,

but it is, again, the strength from the families.

It is a little,

oh, yeah, Jake Jill and all.

I could see that.

I think also I have an aversion to this type of stuff because I grew up in Los Angeles during the Night Stalker as a child.

Yeah, so did my college roommate.

And it was so scary.

We were all terrified this guy was going to climb in our windows at night.

And it's a very, there he is, childhood fear.

I think that may have saved my life, and here's why.

But as Ditzy as Ditzy can be, my parents said, you can go go to any college you want my dad and my mom's like i can't believe you said that they took me to asu i live it in new jersey my mom cried the whole flight home my sister went to boston college like you should go to boston with your sister like mom i'm old now i look at pictures i'm like um so my friend terry had a jeep and she ran out of gas all the time to ditzes and the guy pulls up like muffler dragging and said hop in girls and has a badge and i go let's go She goes, no.

And I'm shocked she said no because I was like, why?

Like, it's just like, there's growing up, there was a night stalker worried about you never know who's who.

And I'm like, let's get in.

He has a badge.

No.

Thank God.

Well,

I lived in Milwaukee during Dahmer, and I got just a taste for chocolate.

I was really like, this is what I want to be doing, man.

It was exciting.

I think we got the Dahmer glasses.

Oh, man.

But the Nightstalk.

I mean, we talk about people not looking like that.

He looks like a killer.

That is the cool thing.

How do they finally get him?

I don't even know.

So the best part of that story is that it was the citizens of los angeles they beat this guy in the streets

they found him somebody somebody in a window some no he was all over the news in la you couldn't not hear about the night stalker and his picture was up everywhere and somebody like saw him coming out of a greyhound bus station i think in the neighborhood there he's trying to steal a car and they fucking spotted him

and these a group of dudes beat him down.

Think about before social media, everyone's like, I'm sick of this guy.

And L.A.

was.

And it was the greatest thing ever that he got street.

Where did you grow up in LA?

The San Fernando Valley.

So it's on Canada.

Last night I turned on Anderson Cooper.

I'm like, it's burning.

It's devastating.

It is devastating.

Devastating.

Yeah.

It's this is the worst one ever.

I don't think I've ever seen it.

And getting you lived.

I lived in LA a couple of years after college, Manhattan Beach first.

And then my dad calls me.

He's like, Do you have a job?

No, I'm just moving with my friends at Manhattan Beach.

But I loved living there.

And I turned it on.

I'm like, what the hell?

It's so sad.

It's very sad.

Not cool.

Oh, my God.

But

there's a great doc about that, too.

The Night Stalker.

Yeah, it's great.

Oh, maybe Jake Gyllenholm played him, right?

I think I made it.

Or I'm thinking of, what was it where they would leave signs that they...

Zodiac?

Yeah, did they ever catch that?

Zodiac was...

Well,

the theory is that the one guy who they presumed was him and had...

that it was him because there's no other there's not there's nobody else that fits the profile like he did he died um that guy who was the long island one who used to shoot people in their cars like they were kissing oh you talked about

this is the new one this is the long island guy yeah a friend of mine's a fucking CSI guy that woman that I'm friends with she said Susan I was at his house no Nancy Gray show like after the fact

I'm sorry but he's an architect and that house it stands out like Billy Baldwin went to high school with the guy like because he lived in upstate and said, like, I don't know.

I mean, do you ever know?

Everyone knows kind of someone in high school where you're like, hmm, I could see that.

So there's the house.

And

I guess he had a room in the basement, like Silence of the Lambs.

No.

Yeah, like a soundproof.

That's quite a mug he's got on him, though, too.

That is a, that's a, that is a face, man.

And it is sad going back to, like, the Gabi Petitos.

If these women, because they didn't have, some of them didn't have families who were going to be the dad that's standing in front of the microphone.

You got away with it for longer.

This makes it a lot better.

He was killing prostitutes.

So it's like people with Nancy.

He's so

good.

But this one woman who was on Nancy Grace was a prostitute and met him and said, no, got the vibe and was like, uh-uh.

Met her wrestler.

He was furious, but like the overpowering.

And, you know,

I just miss the online dating, thank God.

But who do you, you never know who's who, right?

Well, we just, that stalk Mary kill.

What was that stalker lover dancer?

and yeah

i immediately when he talks about going on a date with the first girl and there's she's like we had a party we went to a bar and she's like flipping the bird and like

and i'm like that chick's so fucking crazy did you see that one no that one

it is really good but i think you got to see it i think that one i that one kept me i would i would put the end of the fire one above that was that one is incredible yeah yeah yeah that's what's the premise of it into the fire yeah

so this woman

had given up her,

this woman right here had given up her daughter for adoption.

And she decides,

as an older woman now, to look up her adult daughter.

Well, she finds that the daughter she gave up for adoption had gone missing years prior.

And that's the catalyst for this whole thing.

And she ends up really being, like we were discussing earlier, she ends up being the driving force

for getting answers to, like, how, like, what do you mean my, my daughter just went missing?

And it's, I don't want to give it away because it's such a good story.

It's such a good story that, uh,

I mean, it really is, it's unbelievable.

Christina, did you watch Chilean?

This one?

Yeah.

No.

No, but she was hearing stuff.

What happens is she's like, do you watch TV in different rooms?

No, I fall asleep to him.

And I hear murder and stuff.

She'll just hear, she'll be like, and then assaulted and put a cigarette out on her eyes.

And she's like, thank you.

I'm trying to sleep now.

Or if it's having to do with children, I can't do it.

I can't do it.

I can't.

And that, when I entered weekends on C, I would say, okay, this rundown, it's a Saturday.

It's literally, I said, no dead kids.

Like, this is horrific.

And I know that we shouldn't, like, I'm sorry, but I can say that.

Like, with kids, I can't.

Yeah, I know.

I don't want to watch any kids' stories.

I don't.

I'm telling you, you just did the adoption.

No, this is different.

John Benet is where I drew the the line and I and I got obsessed with John Bonet and Maddie McConnell and I was like, I can't believe it.

What do you think happened to Maddie?

What do you think happened to?

I think what you said to the extent of some maybe neglect, because they were, so if people don't know, it was a group of tourists, English tourists, and they were what in Portugal.

And they decide to not get babysitters.

Instead, they let all their children

sleep alone.

Right.

And instead, they have tapas.

How many feet away?

Around a bush, down the hotel.

And they figure we can check check on these kids every so often.

They should be fine.

Well, one of the kids disappears.

I think, oh, I think they drugged her because they're doctors.

They probably drugged the children to go to sleep.

And I think it was a death.

Because here's what gets me: oh, you think that?

I think it was an accidental death, and then they got rid of the body.

Because the blood-sniffing dogs, remember that?

There's the dogs that are like experts.

They get stopped.

Corpse sniffing.

The dog's alarmed on that.

I do.

I always think it's the parents.

Do you think Casey did the same thing, Anthony?

Was it Anthony?

Allegedly, people guess that it's like chloroform to go out and party.

Yeah.

Hello.

Sometimes that's what they do because that's what those parents did.

I think they drugged the kids to go to sleep so that they could have fun at the top of his place down the street.

And it's funny.

My mom would watch me during this, and my daughter was that age at the time.

I think she's like, I think of Emery too much.

And I'll call her about Delphi and I'll say, Mom, this is what I saw today in court.

She'll start crying.

And she's like, it's just so sad.

And not that I'm not sad, but I'm like, realize how hardened because I have to like talk about it on the air.

And so I'm almost able to compartmentalize, but who knows?

Long-term damage.

Like you're, you're able to talk about it because it's my job.

So, yeah.

But it is horribly sad.

And the one day, so we're, we're, we get lottery tickets for pool reporters.

So I'm in the front row.

And that day that I got the pool, I took myself out of the lottery after that.

I said to Nancy's producer, I'm like, get me out.

Because it's front row, and it was the crime scene photo day.

Oh.

And it was zooming in.

And I went,

like, oh, no.

And I had to, I got in trouble too.

You laugh.

So I had to take notes and I knew that it was going out to a pool because there's no cameras.

And my notes weren't that good.

And we're in a lunch break.

And the Carroll County Comet newspaper lady who was like, Susan, I need your notes.

I said, they're not done.

I'm just writing.

I'm googling the blood term.

It was DNA day and I'm so stressed.

And then I send it at four o'clock.

I had to take pictures so everyone could get it.

Well,

Nancy's producer producer calls me.

I've been friends with him at CNN.

He goes, Cheerbite, you got fired.

I go, what do you mean?

He goes, you got let go.

You didn't hand your notes in at noon.

I'm like, I'm fired for the pool.

They're like, yeah.

I'm like, good.

I'd rather wait in line with the cool people anyway.

It was just so funny.

I'm like, they're like, we won't be needing your services for the notes.

But I'm like, I don't want to sit in the front row and be worried about the notes.

And that's the fine line.

Because I got close to the family.

I was like, you know what?

Because I did go to the hearing and Mike, the grandfather's like, who are you with now?

I'm like, myself.

I wanted to be there.

I didn't want.

So it's kind of like, I don't know.

I think I'm too in it almost with this case, like that I don't,

it's a little nuts.

Yeah.

Well, for people who want to do a deep dive because you did,

get

down the hill, the descent, my descent into the double murder in Delphi, which I'm excited to read.

I am.

Maybe you can read it out loud to me as I fall asleep.

I can read to the kids.

Well, it's funny.

I asked the families because it mattered to me.

I didn't want them to not want me to do this.

So I sent them a couple of chapters.

I said, if you don't want me to do it, I won't do it.

And Becky said, no, it's okay.

And she read it.

And this was a very big compliment to me.

Tara, Libby's aunt, said, Can you send me four for Christmas?

Because it's not, at this point, we didn't know much, but it's really about them going through beginning to end and their perspective.

So it wasn't like,

you know, not that I'm on my high horse saying I'm better, because people are really fascinated by the actual killer you know we can name them yeah we rarely can name the victim so I just wanted it to be a different perspective yeah I'm not saying I'm amazing by doing it it's just what I knew sure what I could write about and we don't get to hear those stories I don't think you know I've ever heard of a book like that where you hear from their perspective and how absolutely traumatizing that has to be to have something

and to be able to keep going on yeah it's like it's and that's what it is it's the connection that at Crime Crime like if they can get through that, how do they get through that?

Then I can get through anything I'm going through.

So true.

That's a good point.

So true.

So that's what I've gained.

I've learned so much from them.

And Kelsey, Libby's sister, wrote the foreword.

I asked her.

And I'm like, if she can get through this, she was only 18 at the time.

She dropped them off at the bridge.

She blamed herself.

She didn't know what to do.

I went to her baby shower.

She has a little girl.

She's pregnant again.

So, yes, I am too close.

But I love them.

I really like them as people.

And I think I felt for the first time I was in the inside looking out.

It said the the outside looking in and getting the sound bite.

And I know it might be nuts, but it's my perspective.

Tell you what, I think you're nuts.

I think you're nuts, but I'm going to read this.

Susan, thank you so much for coming.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's so fun chatting with you.

Hopefully, you can come back and we can do another dive into crime.

Would love to and horrible things that people

and home our Christmas challenge.

Yes.

All right.

That's it.

We'll see you guys next week.

Bye.

Welcome to Macabees Medical Monday.

Today it's all about this, the cucumber, or as they call it in Jamaica, cucumbers, cucumbers,

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Empty cucumbers, cut it in a slice.

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