#2978 RHOC S19E07 Part 2: See Ya Later, Alligator

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Hi everyone, welcome back.

This is part two of a two-part recap.

If you're wondering where part one was, well go check in the feed and be sure to subscribe so that way you always get your episodes.

But enough of that, let's get right back into the episode.

So Tamara's here, Dr.

Michaela.

And the doctor's like, so what's been going on with you?

How you feeling?

Well, you know, I've been like really anxious and stuff because I was fighting with Eddie and he had to like literally hug me down and calm me down doctor

yeah you know i went to big bear and i had to isolate myself it was so hard i was so alone i was so bullied you know how in big bear they have big wooden beds at every place every time they were going wow so stop bullying me you're being so mean to me i said wow the beds big bears are big to me but then i have the therapy Because I feel

I don't get paid for this episode, so here I am.

It was so important for me to catch Big Bear and to be isolated isolated and alone.

And that's what I was.

Alone, alone in Big Bear.

Here's some footage that some person took of me being alone.

Just so you know that I was alone with another person who could film me.

Look at me.

I'm sitting on a log all alone with somebody siding behind a tree taking my picture.

I love that.

It's just Tamara.

I'm so alone sitting on a log.

Someone took the picture, Tamara.

I know.

So she was like, well, I confronted this girl about taking roofies, about talking about roofies, and I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her.

That's your,

I wanted her to give me a chance to believe her.

Sorry, I wanted to give her a chance to make me believe her.

It's something like that.

It's like,

I'm inviting you.

I'm inviting you to say something truthful so I can finally believe you.

I'm giving you the floor to change your narrative so it fits mine.

Would you like to take that chance?

And then I just remember Gretchen yelling at me and Gina yelling at me and Jennifer making a voodoo doll that was trying to copy my entire life.

I called the guy and said, Take me to the airport.

And then when we were driving, I looked.

The driver was a beignet.

Oh,

I was just such a mess.

I was such a mess.

And part of the dinner, I called Teddy, and Teddy didn't answer.

And I just thought Teddy died or something.

So that's when I took half a Xanax, everybody.

I don't even remember anything.

I don't remember anything after that.

And we here see a flashback of her calling Teddy.

And Teddy's voicemail goes, hi, you've reached Teddy.

Don't leave a voicemail.

And Tara's like, Teddy, I'm giving you a voicemail.

I just hope you're doing okay.

I'm on camera right now, so America needs to see that I care.

It's a very Teddy voicemail greeting.

It's like, hey, I'm Teddy.

Don't leave a voicemail.

Beep.

But I love that she still leaves a voicemail because I think that Teddy Teddy sincerely is like, really, don't leave a voicemail.

I don't want to deal with your voice.

But I also like that Teddy just starts with, hi, I'm Teddy.

Hi, I'm Teddy.

Hi, I'm Teddy.

You reached my voicemail.

Don't leave a message.

I was just so upset.

Shot taking Zane X and two drinks.

It's because Teddy's sick, everybody.

I just don't want people to see that side of me.

The side of me where I get caught taking Zanex and drinks when everybody's seen that side of me nine million times on these episodes of the show.

Sick Tamara, we all know the only, we know know now what it is, but we've seen for years when you show up with your little black beady eyes and act like that.

It's not like the first time that this has ever happened.

And you know, and I love that she's like, you know, you know, they knew I did something, they could tell.

And we just see these like little bubbles of like flashbacks.

Like, here's Tamara having trying to have this very serious therapy scene.

And they put up a little bubble of Gina going, You swashed.

And then not one of them called me.

Not one of them.

No one's even concerned about me after I tell them all the fuck off and die.

I mean, it's crazy.

Like, no one even cares how I got home or nothing.

And the doctor's like, uh-huh.

And how do you make sense of that, honey?

She's like, they don't care about me.

They don't like me.

Nobody likes me.

I feel rejection.

I've had to think, I have to think, does this person like me?

Now, everywhere I go, I'm like, does this person like me?

The other day I went to buy a TikTok and bear, beep, bear.

And I was like, does that lady like me?

Probably not.

Probably not.

She didn't let me fall on trying to sign.

I've been bullying for the rabbit at the house.

So, Doc is like, you're very wounded.

And I would say, just a little bit annoying.

That's part of your pathology.

Yeah, well, after my dad left my mom and Sydney left me, and Quinn's nose closed down, it's just hard to get close to someone.

I put a wall up.

I put a wall.

Time is a wall up.

It talks just my dad.

And you know, Sydney and stuff.

I just feel like I'm never good enough.

I just don't know where my plate's in anymore.

It's almost like you can't accuse people of stuff and trying to ruin their lives and stuff without them saying something back at you.

It's just not right.

So then Tamara.

Such a Tamara scene.

Oh my God.

Tamara's therapy is the gift that keeps on giving.

I love it.

I love how she comes in there just like, it's like with Jax at his like, his rehab scenes.

Tamara coming in there crying and being like, oh my God, am I even allowed to talk?

I can't even say a thing.

People don't like me.

I'm never good enough.

Oh, what is me?

And it's like, you're like completely reframing her wretched behavior that all the time.

Oh, it's perfect villain behavior.

It's like, wow, so that's what you're wearing tonight?

I mean, you look a little heavy.

God, that was really shitty of you to say, oh, I'm sorry.

I can't say anything.

I can't say anything.

Oh, okay.

Cancel culture.

So then

we go to Emily and she's home with Luke and the family, et etc.

And so they're trying to get Luke to eat some food.

Looks like he's eating some fries, whatever.

He doesn't want to eat any sweet potatoes.

It's funny because they're like, she's like, you want to have some sweet potato?

And he's like, no way, Jose.

And he's like, it's orange.

And they're trying to show this as like further evidence, which I don't doubt.

you know, he has an eating disorder.

But I'm also like, to be fair, as a kid, you might not want to eat a sweet potato.

Like,

that's kind of how kids are, you know?

Yeah, that is part of it.

It's like, okay.

And so.

Would you like some broccoli?

Like some broccoli and Brussels sprouts?

No.

Oh, my God.

So it's like, you don't like orange food?

Well, I mean, Keller would try anything.

The normal one would eat it.

I'm like, God, how is this?

Like, watching you deal with this is like.

hard.

It's hard to watch.

Even as a non-parent, I'm just like, oh, my God.

And while I watch it, I'm like, don't say anything.

You're not supposed to parent shame.

You don't understand what this is like.

This is not your lived experience.

And I get all that.

But at the same time, I'm like, oh, my God, you're going to, you're going to.

Why are you doing this?

Stop it.

I think she wants to show up in our eyes and be like, stop it.

I think she's trying to be like, hey, it's okay.

Look, Keller eats it.

It's totally fine.

But it's really coming off as like, Keller eats it.

What's wrong with you?

Hey, non-freak, you want to try a sweet potato?

See, that's how you do it.

Shane is like, okay, let's get him out of here.

So the kids go off.

And he gives like Emily this really, really long hug.

Like, he doesn't want to leave Emily, et etc.

So they go and

Emily starts talking about how when she was in New Orleans, Luke was calling over and over and over again and sort of made her feel bad.

And she talks about how.

But then we see evidence of this and every time he answers, she just puts it on like go to voicemail.

She's like, I just feel so guilty as a mom.

You have a child in crisis and he called me over and over again.

And then they show him calling and she's like, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail, voicemail

it's like man the editors hate your ass because that's she was probably just like like pressing likes on tweets or something and the editors were like yeah let's just show emily pressing ignore on her childhood crisis over and over that's cold you guys come on

So she says that he started like, when she came home, he was talking like all baby like and regressive.

And Shane's like, yeah, but when he's, when you're not here, he's like, he's like normal.

It's just like when you're here, he talks like a baby.

i'm not saying that you baby him but uh maybe it's time to throw out the baby bottles you know what i'm saying m she's like what

so they're talking about this and yeah she's like no but it's neurological that's not why we have testing shane and shane's like okay but if it's neurological then we have to work around it you know i mean you go to new orleans he gets up he gets ready and go to school but when you're here he texts you all day from school he won't go he won't leave he's hugging you like some of it is just an act for your attention emily and she's like he's possibly autistic and you're simplifying it

he's basically like well now i'm getting mad because like you act like i have to like cry and be upset and consider like i don't have to like like i care just as much as you do but you're making it seem like because i'm not like

expressing all these emotions that i don't feel the same way

and then he tells us and i was sort of like i was sort of like i i kind of like shane's perspective on this and then he starts saying how well i'm more sensitive to my girls And maybe that's wrong, but like, you know, for me, like, whatever.

He's like, if it were me, I wouldn't send the boy, like, send them to a specialist right away.

Cause like the, the, I'm always telling my boys, you have to like, you know, like toughen up and like walk it off.

And I'm like, well, I don't know, like, like, if there's something that needs to be addressed, like, go to a specialist.

Can we like step out of our gender roles for one second?

I mean, I think what he's just trying to say is kids are kids and you don't know how much of it is a kid being just an odd kid and going through a phase or how much of it is an actual thing.

And like his way is just kind of taking it at the kid's pace and figuring it out as they go along.

And Emily is like freaking out over every little thing and trying to label it as, oh, God, it's got to be this disease or that disease or it has to be autism or it has to be an eating disorder.

And he's like, can we just like.

Chill, you know, because even if it is those things, it's not like we're going to throw the kid.

It's not like there's something instant you can do where you can just throw the kid into some kind of a machine and change everything.

You're going to just have to kind of learn how to deal with it as you go along.

Right.

And so I think he's just got that more chill attitude where she's in like, we have to fix it mode, which I mean, I can see both sides.

Obviously, I'm more of a Shane, you know?

I mean, I was just raised to be like, you're not going to the doctor unless you are bleeding out of your eye, you know?

But then I also had phases of growing up where I was diagnosed with a lot of different stuff that at that time was like, what even is that?

It's like dyslexia dyslexia or ADD and stuff like that.

I was diagnosed with that stuff when I was younger and we were just like, meh, sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, you know?

And then as an adult, yeah, I do still type words in jumbles, as you see in my notes constantly.

There are moments where I have that and ADD.

I think anyone who listens to this show can probably.

vouch for that one being correct, but I don't know.

It's like, is one, is one version of parenting better than the other?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I think it's actually good to have the balance.

I think it's good to have someone who is concerned and is like, it's like, we should look into this.

I think it's also good to have someone who is saying, let's also like, let's not make our child lose his mind.

Like, he's still, he's still a kid, and we can't make him, we can't treat him like, like, we, we have, we can also let him just go out in the world and exist too.

So, I think the balance is good.

But where Shane I think is not great is that, like, Emily is obviously emotional about this, and he is, as usual, not not very supportive when she needs some she needs some support from her partner and he's kind of like why are you acting like this okay well okay we can hug fine let's hug

and he's like

it's like it's one thing for him to i think maybe be more stoic around the whole situation but i think within when it comes to your wife and she's going through it like maybe step up a little bit and try to like do something to put her at ease because she is your partner yeah yeah i can see that But I can also see his side because you see him try to be patient with Emily during these conversations where he's just obviously thinking different and he doesn't want to label it all these things just.

He's not ready to go like whole, whole hog on this.

And Emily is just being kind of so over the top about every little thing.

Like, he didn't want a french fry.

Oh, my God.

This is a huge thing.

He isn't eating this.

And he's like, oh, my God.

It's normal for a kid to not want a fucking French fry.

So I think he's trying to be patient.

And it's, there is a sense from Emily, like, well, I care more because I'm crying a lot.

And like, how can you not care that our son has this disease?

I mean, I would feel like she's saying that to me when he's like, it doesn't mean I don't care.

It's like, just because I'm not going into histrionics about a sweet potato doesn't mean that I don't care about our son.

So please don't insinuate that.

But I do see what you're saying as far as like when somebody's really going through it, it doesn't really matter if she's right or wrong.

She still needs somebody to just be like, listen, everything you're saying, if you're correct about every single thing thing and he has an eating disorder and he's autistic and he has all of this other stuff, it's going to be okay.

And we're going to get through it together.

And you don't need to take it all on yourself.

You know,

he needs to like be able to do that too.

Yeah, I think because I do like when he's sort of being like, hey, if it's a neurological thing, nothing to be upset about.

Like, it's just who he is.

you know, and you just, we'll work around it and make accommodations.

He's trying to sort of like, he's trying to be actually very like

a return to normalcy.

Like, hey, it's okay.

We can be normal.

Like, you don't, it's nothing to cry over.

Like, if this is just the way he is, it's the way he is.

We'd love him all the same, right?

I think he's trying to come from that tactic.

But I think that, like, I think that Emily just needs reassurances that everything is okay.

And I think she's yeah, she also has all these other issues about being a mom that come from her own childhood.

So she's just sort of going through it.

So that's what happened in that scene.

Uh, then we go over to Tamarin.

Barrel of Monkeys over at that house.

Great times.

Great times.

So we go, we go over to Ospi

and we have Heather meeting up with Tamra

and

they have like

Tamara is very cool.

She's like, how are you?

I'm sad.

You may have noticed.

I left out Trapelle.

Like that's her whole vibe.

So

Heather's like, how are you?

Most importantly.

And by most importantly, I put that in air quotes.

It's more like least importantly, because you should be asking me how I'm doing since I just have had to put floors into a mansion that I'm going to sell at a loss.

I just wanted you to know, this is a very sensitive scene with you, Tamara.

So I ordered peppermint tea instead of chimps.

I'm feeling things.

This is me feeling.

Okay.

So.

What happened now that our handsome waiter Cody has come and left?

Because that guy Cody is like, hey, everyone, I'm Cody.

I'll be your waiter.

Would you guys like some biceps or triceps for your appetizer?

All right.

Bye, everyone.

Oh, I'm here to serve your tea bag.

Whoa, whoa, Cody.

Whoa.

Well, I guess I'm doing a little bit better than I was.

I don't know if you saw the social media post-Tac Mental Health that I was sitting on a log all alone with Big Bear.

Oseline, Iceland.

Not even the bears would talk to me, Big Bear.

Yeah, you know, but you, you know, I felt like you walked into dinner in a good spot.

You had a big smile on your face.

Yeah,

because I thought for once,

we got Gretchen on the side.

We got our Gretchen on the side.

We were going to just roast Katie.

It looked great.

Everything was going our way.

And I talked to Gretchen, and I thought that I believed what she said.

But then I thought back about her acting.

I was like, hmm, no.

So yeah, she's basically saying she believed Gretchen's act of being so horrified at what Katie has done, but it all turned into a plan to ruin Tamara's plan.

Tamara, you don't even understand how you sound.

Like, you don't even understand how you say it, because it is what you said.

I mean, basically, what she's saying is like, I talked to Gretchen, I had her all ready to go.

And then before the dinner, Gretchen decided she wasn't going to go along with my plan.

Do you know how upsetting that is?

Do you know how upsetting it is?

That's what she's offended about.

She's like,

when she says that, she said, when I thought back to her acting, she's literally saying, like, wow, she led me on into thinking she'd be on my side, but then she wasn't on my side in trying to drive a wedge between her and Katie.

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So this is where it gets really wonky.

So Tamara says, okay, and I said to her, did you tell Katie at any time that you had to go to the hospital?

And then we see a clip of unaired footage of them being in the van.

And Tamara said,

She's asking Katie and Gretchen.

No, no, she's saying, she's asking Gretchen.

and Gretchen's kind of whispering because she doesn't want it to be on camera probably.

But she's like, yeah, but I did have to go to the hospital because I was so sick.

So like, yeah, she said there that she did have to go and she told her that.

And so Tamara's like, and Gretchen is a queen of denial.

You know, didn't say I went to the hospital.

Well, yeah, you did.

So which one is it?

And then we see the clip of this is where Gretchen is in the confusing pink dress that was freaking me out that says, I didn't go to the hospital.

I felt so sick that I should have gone to the hospital.

so gretchen's a goddamn liar too this is where i almost threw shit at the tv i was like wait a minute you're all liars all of you come on man

well because she knows that this is going to go like What Gretchen probably knows is that this is Tamara's ploy.

This is Tamara's immunity agreement that she's offering to Gretchen, which is, if you co-sign that you said this, I won't come after you.

I'll use it to go after Katie.

But Gretchen is afraid that Tamara's can go back on the immunity agreement and turn it into an issue of like, how could you tell people that I roofied you?

That's illegal.

You should never, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

She knows this is going to be used against her.

So now she's like, oh, I'm going to hedge.

I'm going to actually, like, I did say that, but now I'm, I, you know, I don't want to get involved because I know this will be used against me and I don't want to go back to Naked Wasted.

That's my interpretation of it.

And of course, Tamara is going to do that exact thing.

She is going to revoke the immunity.

I guess because Gretchen didn't hold up her end of the immunity bargain.

But now, now this fight, I guarantee in four weeks from now, I'm going to be like, what what caused all this mess in the first place?

It's all just, it's just, this whole thing is going to spiral out of Tamara just trying to turn Gretchen against Katie by saying that Katie has been telling people that Gretchen has been saying that Tamara rupeed her.

My God.

So Tamara says, oh, yeah, I had some suspicions going into dinner that it wasn't going to work out.

So I got triggered.

I got triggered.

You know, so I knew I was going to get upset.

So I didn't want to get upset.

So instead of getting upset, I took a Xanax.

I mean, God, I'm just on an island by myself.

What am I supposed to do?

It's just like taking the vitamin before rain.

Hello.

Hello.

My turn.

My turn.

What about me?

I was worried about you.

I sent a text to Terry and said, I wonder what's going on with Tamara.

Did you not know that?

Hey, Terry, you have a show called Botched.

Could you have one that's called Psychologically Botched and find out what's going on with cuckoo pants over there?

Because geez.

So Tamara goes, I didn't get a call.

And then Heather just all of a sudden, it's almost like, it's like the cape comes out and the evil queen is there.

And she goes, excuse me.

I called you that night.

I spoke to you on FaceTime and you hung up.

Then I texted you.

How are you?

Where are you?

And you know what you do?

You text me.

You call me.

Guess what?

The tables have turned.

This is my fight now.

And I am the victim of the evening.

I am extremely upset.

and I'm going to show it by doing my underbite anger look.

You notice when she does that?

She juts her chin out and she puts like her upper teeth under her lower teeth, and she's, hmm.

Yes, this is when she has not only the claw hands, but she has the okay symbols.

Yes.

No, and no.

Okay, then, okay, okay, then, fine.

And she's like, I have been Tamara's friend, and I have stood by her to the detriment.

Is that too big of a word for this audience?

Okay, I'll keep going.

Just replace it with something else.

To the detriment of my relationship with other people.

And I think the bare minimum, you can text back.

I think I've earned that.

You, you, what you're doing, you're going to social media and multiple podcasts before talking to me.

And how can you, can you understand how that might be upsetting to me?

To me.

Why can't you just say how I i was feeling i was feeling all alone not even a bear would talk to me big bear you know that there

i do i do i do

you're trying to make me sound like a bad person but i'm sorry heather that i didn't make you feel more comfortable when i was in the fetal position dying on the ground

that's not what i'm saying what you're saying is i was reaching out

to you i was reaching out to you rich person to less rich person, also known as a poor, and caring.

And I was being a very caring person, as I've learned in my Stella Adler acting classes.

You go like this.

Oh,

how are you?

That's caring.

Congratulations.

And you threw me out.

I felt like I wasn't important to you.

Do you know what it's like to have to relive while your daughter doesn't want to talk to you?

And in the meantime, your best friend gets brain cancer.

I'm going to do so much.

I'm going to cheat so much.

Stop it.

None of those are an excuse to be evil.

That daughter hasn't talked to you in forever.

Okay.

That's not like fresh news.

And this teddy cancer stuff is not your

fucking free pass to be a dick to everybody.

I can't even believe she's using it like that.

That is so gross.

Stop using other people's pain and real-life traumatic storylines to your own advantage.

That is so gross.

Who does that?

It was so gross, but so hilarious.

Cornered that she pulls out, she pulls both the Sydney and the Teddy card at the same time.

Oh, God.

And Heather just has to be like,

she does that thing where she like, she puts all her force in her face right into her lips, closed, just,

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm very sorry about that.

I'm very sorry.

But she tells us, you know, I feel bad for her, but she's not going to listen to me.

We don't have any room to continue this conversation because she's just, you know, she's basically like, okay, she's whipped out the trauma cloak.

So this conversation's over.

What are you gonna do?

I thought about using my Reba McIntyre card and talking about the time that Reba ignored me when I went to Spago's, but she's not

have you ever heard of a little show called Happy's Place?

Well, I hadn't until it had already been filmed.

Listen, you can always call me or even or text me, even if you just want event, and I will check that voicemail later.

So just know that.

Just know that somewhere Alfredo is reading that and thinking, hmm, should I give this to Heather or is she going to throw the phone at my face again?

Did you know that if you order fried oysters in a baguette in New Orleans, they call it an Alfredo?

Amazing.

Okay, now, serious question, what's more beautiful than Sir Misu here?

Or the way in a

So then we go to Katie and Matt at home and their son's there.

And she's like, can I, honey, make me a martini?

Think, you want a martini, mom?

She's like, mommy needs a martini.

Okay, just shut up.

Do your coloring or whatever it is you're going to do.

Go to bed.

I don't even care.

Okay.

So then they sit down.

And then meanwhile, at Goat Hill Tavern, Jen shows up to meet Emily and Gretchen comes and Gretchen's like, um, what is this place?

Gretchen did not even bother looking on Yelp beforehand to see where she's going.

Also, Gretchen has, I guess, now fully transitioned away from being like the Texas Party girl that she was when we met her because she is in like a fur coat and she's just like dressed up like she's going to Javier's and they're just in a dive bar and she's confused.

Well, meanwhile, Jen's standing there in like shiny black leather pants

and like ready to throw down some bottles of schlitz.

yeah they look kind of crazy in the spar but yeah it is pretty funny that gretchen is now acting like she's way above being in an irish pub you know yeah like she's never been in one of these places before when like this was her whole storyline so the waiter comes over and Emily is like so I hear your espresso martinis are not great so I'll take one gosh she's just so fucking rude wherever she goes she's so rude and the guy doesn't even care he's like whatever whatever lady espresso martinis are my thing now

so emily talks about how her son has an eating disorder and you know they just don't know how to parent him etc and like she just doesn't know how to do it and jen's like let's play pool

she's like i don't want to talk about it so go we go back to katie And she's like, oh, Matt, the final night, Gina comes in and she's like, I called the reporter and he confirmed that you did tell Geeky the story at Mastros.

And did you hear Slade talk about this?

Did you ever hear Slade talk about this roofie stuff?

And Matt's like, yeah.

And I can say this, you didn't make it up.

So that's all that needs to be said.

So now we have confirmation that Slade was basically telling everybody that Gretchen was roofy that night.

So Katie's, so Katie's like, yeah.

All right, guys.

Well, after NOLA, I felt like I had been thrown under a boss.

I gave Gretchen the chance to come clean when I brought up Mastros, and she didn't.

And she said she was sure Tammer drugged her the night of Naked Wasted.

It was clear as day what she said.

And Jen backing Gretchen tells me all I need to know about those two.

So now this trio is going to implode because now Katie is saying

that yes, she did say this to Kiki Monique, but she didn't admit to saying it because she was covering for Gretchen because Slade had already called him and said, deny, deny, deny, deny.

So that's what she was doing.

But now she's getting screwed because Gina called the reporter and she's basically saying that Jen is continuing to cover for Gretchen, but Katie is not going to cover anymore.

But just to be clear, she still has not admitted to calling Kiki.

Yes, she is not.

She's just saying now somehow it's a mystery how Kiki found this out, but Gretchen did say it.

Gretchen did say Gretchen Slade did say it.

So that's where she's at right now.

So now back at the bar, Jen's like, okay, let's talk about this Katie thing.

You know, I want to support Katie, but I mean, what the hell is going on?

And Gretchen's like, yeah, when I had time to decompress, I thought am I being naive am I like what's happening and Emma's like yes yes you are

So then Gretchen's like, yeah, Katie originally told me that she had no problem saying that she would try to clear this up.

And then we see a clip of Katie saying like, you know what?

I'm going to call Kiki and we'll bring it up on camera.

But then all of a sudden, Kiki, I mean, Katie backs out and is like, no, I'm not going to call Kiki anymore.

She's like, yeah, you know, it's just really late over there.

I was going to say FaceTime, but am I really ready for a face?

I don't know if I'm really ready for that.

I mean, she'll just lie anyway.

She's just going to lie.

So Katie's like, well, I mean, why am I to blame?

Gretchen and Slayt are the ones spreading all this and making the story up and real talk.

Wait, back it up.

Am I saying what really happened or am I protecting Gretchen?

Like, what do you want me to do, protect the producers?

Imagine the producer said, please protect Gretchen.

So it's really highlighting the producer's shadiness and all of this too.

So the producer is like, okay, well, just tell me what really happened.

Let's go there.

She goes, okay.

All right.

Gather around, everybody.

Here's another version of the truth by Katie.

After Matt spoke to me when this info about Kiki came out, Slade called Matt and said, tell Katie to say that Gretchen never said it.

And I have to hold the line and protect Gretchen.

So if Kiki's, if Kiki's claiming that I knew this story from Gretchen, the only time I've hung out with Gretchen was with Ryan and Jen.

So they would have heard it.

So why am I blamed for it?

Why isn't Jen in trouble for telling Kiki Monique is basically what she's saying, right?

Like, why am I blamed for calling Kiki Monique when Jen and Ryan were also there and heard this story?

Because, Katie, we know that you went to lunch with Kiki Monique.

We don't know that Jen went to lunch with Kiki Monique.

I mean, Katie, girl.

This is also so fucked up because we all saw, whether there was Rufies or not, we all saw that there was a plan to get gretchen wasted at that party there's a plan to supply her with alcohol and of course you're responsible for what you put in your body but like we all saw we all know it's a legendary scene in housewives lore for a reason and yet somehow we're now in a place where like gretchen has to be protected like like oh no gretchen said she was roofied like we can't let that out that she said that like gretchen was the victim here

Gretchen was like, if you ask me, she was the victim.

And now all of a sudden, and now all of a sudden, like we it's like oh we have to tiptoe around the fact that she felt like she was roofied like i kind of think that's bullshit too like she should be allowed to say like yeah i think i was roofied that night you know especially well i'm wondering if gretchen is worried about getting sued or something i think she's either worried about getting sued but from Tamra or she may be worried that bra like Bravo would not be happy with her saying that because it makes Bravo look bad because it happened on their watch and she doesn't want to get on the bad side of Bravo whatever it is she's very self-conscious about actually

being on the record as making a big claim like that.

And the truth is, this, like, a lot of people, like, when they, you hear from so many people, first of all, there's a lot of people who get roofied, which is scary, but there are a lot of people who will say, like, oh, I went to

a bar last night and like, I only had like two drinks and I was like on the floor in a way that I don't normally, I think someone put something in my drink.

People will say that a lot.

And I'm not, and it's not discounting it, but that's something that people say.

And I don't think that Gretchen should be like afraid of like having said said that ever.

Yeah.

And someone sent us a DM this week saying, or maybe it was a comment or something saying, you guys, please don't make it sound like Ryan raped Gretchen.

Ryan didn't rape Gretchen.

She said no and he laid off.

So please don't make, okay, first of all, we never said that Ryan raped Gretchen.

But if you watch that episode again, no, that was not as simple as somebody saying no and then somebody backing off.

That was her getting progressively more and more wasted.

She's completely out of it in the whole episode.

And he's over there like putting things in her boobs and he's on her with his hands all over the whole time, following her into the bathroom, coming onto her really heavy.

He did not, she said no, and he did not just walk away.

It was trying to convince her and trying to do all this shit, which you guys know that if this was to get today's standards, that would not fly at all.

I can't even believe it did.

back then but we're not saying he raped her but we are saying that man is an extreme fucking creep and so was his mother and they're it's nuts that they got away with this and she's even back here and it's nuts that she's bringing this all back into the public eye because it was bad it was really really bad and i'm not being a janet or an alarmist by saying that it was bad

it was bad it was bad it was bad and i don't feel bad saying it i don't care

by the way the commenter was totally nice i'm not yelling at you i'm just saying like come on come on watch it again

but what but it's just it's interesting because this the whole like focus of the argument is now shifting into like, did Gretchen say it?

Did Gretchen not say it?

And I'm like, if she said it, I think she's like well within her right to say it.

I think it's she is.

And that's what I said last week.

Like, if she says she was roofied, I would believe it because we saw the footage and she looked like she could have been roofied.

So I would have, I would totally believe that.

And this is also another

very typical example of what happens, I think, a lot of times with victims where she's now being villainized by the perpetrator.

It's like all these years later, you're re-litigating it and you're reframing it as if you're being victimized by Gretchen somehow.

And that's absolutely fucking bottom of the barrel.

It's gross.

So basically, Katie feels like a pawn and she thinks that Gretchen has been caught in a lie.

And it's just also kind of a shame because these three are kind of like,

I like that they're, I like their little trio.

I like that they, like they're dealing with Tamara and Emily and Gina.

And I just, I like them, I like them as a trio.

And it looks like they're going to fall apart, which is

what Tamara's plan was.

Yeah.

And Katie's whole victim act here is ridiculous, too.

You know, Katie, you were the one who took this information straight to a fucking podcaster.

I mean, a radio person and laid it out there.

Like, who does, like, that is bullshit?

You know, like, I'm team Katie for most of this because even though I know she's a liar, she's still fighting people.

She's still fighting the person that I think is the worst.

She's fighting the good fight.

Right.

So, I mean, obviously she's been full of shit through a lot of this, but you can't be like, oh, now, now I'm the victim because Gretchen won't admit to saying it.

You should never have done what you did, Katie.

Come on.

Like, I like you, but your, your rewrites are just too much at this point.

Or just apologize.

For fuck's sake, what you did was gross.

Or Katie should just

just, should just live in it.

Because guess what?

If she has to fall out, if she, if she she falls out with Gretchen now because of this, it would have been the same as if she had fallen out of with Gretchen because she said, yeah, I did tell Kiki Monique.

And like, wouldn't you rather fall out while you stood in your truth?

And then people were like, yeah, I like that.

She like owns what she says.

But instead, she's falling out in a position where we say, well, Katie, she, she says that she didn't say it.

And then she always comes back and says, well, I did say it.

So like, Katie has to, I think, be just more.

If you're going to fall out with him anyway, then just be more comfortable saying like, yeah, I was messy.

She's getting getting better, but she's not quite there yet.

No, she's not even close.

And then she turned on Kiki Monique.

I mean, she's been all over the

Instagram and everything else and this show saying Kiki Monique's just a fucking liar now.

And so what did she lie about exactly?

Because you went to, yeah, now Kiki's the liar.

So you went to lunch with Kiki.

Then where did Kiki get the information about the roofie if it wasn't from you?

Like, it doesn't even make sense that Kiki would just

make something like that up when all this happened at Mastros.

Like your lies don't even make sense now, Katie.

Come on, man.

Yeah, Kiki's not going to be like, let me just start up.

Like, let me create a rumor about something that happened 12 years ago.

No.

So, um,

so Gretchen is saying how she feels like she has to call Kiki Monique now, which is what they should have done all along.

And Jen is saying, well, I mean, playing devil's advocate, if Gretchen did say this, then why would Katie repeat it to a blogger?

Or a radio host?

And Gretchen says, I need to get to the bottom of this.

And so next week, Kiki, Kiki makes her grand appearance on Orange County.

And we're going to see what happens to settle the score and put it all out there.

Yep.

Oh, my gosh.

What a mess.

But this was really a good episode.

And all these things came unfolding that I didn't think were going to unfold.

I mean, really.

These are the best seasons.

The best seasons are when there's like a small thing and a build and then something else grows out of it and gets bigger and bigger and bigger, as opposed to the bad seasons are the ones where they try stuff stuff and it doesn't work.

So it's this episodic, like, here's the here's another three-week storyline, and here's another three.

But this is just like it's growing, it's snowballing.

They're whipping themselves into a frenzy over something, honestly, that like really is not worth whipping themselves into a frenzy for.

But they're doing a great job at it.

Yep, good times, everybody.

Well, thanks so much for being here, everybody.

We will see you Monday with Real Housewives of Miami and Crappy Hour, which will be at 5:30 p.m.

Pacific time live over on our YouTube.

You can also find links on our Instagram, or it's a free post on Patreon.

So go check that out.

Wee!

Bye, everyone.

Love you guys.

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